Why do so many Americans reject socialism?

[ThatOneDude]

The list of things you're worried about giving up is quite telling. I'd bet good money mattbattle.com is in your sear

Lol what list of things I'm worried about giving up? I'm not giving anything up....

All I was saying is that if we say people can't or shouldn't do something that others think is weird then there's a long list of things we wouldn't enjoy. As long as you arent actively hurting someone I could care less about what you have, do, or anything like that.

 

[ThatOneDude]

I feel like you think I'm taking about millionaires. Im taking Saudi Prince slave drivers. Russian Oligarchs. Not Bob Smith down the road with a Porsche.

I'm aware of who you are talking about.

 

[EyeAmYuki]

Lol what list of things I'm worried about giving up? I'm not giving anything up....

All I was saying is that if we say people can't or shouldn't do something that others think is weird then there's a long list of things we wouldn't enjoy. As long as you arent actively hurting someone I could care less about what you have, do, or anything like that.

Certain people have got to the point where their wealth is allowing them to re write the rule book. Wealth, and power with it is becoming more and more centralised. How else will you stop that?

 

[sparkuri]

The elephant in the room, imo, is that not only does greed transcend ism's and politics, but as far as healthcare goes, obtaining that wealth, most of the time, comes at the expense of citizens' health.

This hasn't been addressed as an overall issue with the degree of seriousness it demands.

We talk about global warming with partial pseudo-science, but the hard facts say cancer+ odd disease has gone up 1000000%.
And lawsuits only encourage corporations to continue due to slaps on the wrist.

I just don't think an ism can cure a disease of the heart.




View: https://youtu.be/WB6p5QPVhPI

 

[BJTT-Geronimo_De_Gato]

i like mike moore.

And socialism.

go figure.

 

[ThatOneDude]

Certain people have got to the point where their wealth is allowing them to re write the rule book. Wealth, and power with it is becoming more and more centralised. How else will you stop that?

I don't have the answer to that, but telling people how much of something they can have is insane to me.

 

[ThatOneDude]

We talk about global warming with partial pseudo-science, but the hard facts say cancer+ odd disease has gone up 1000000%.

OK, do you have a source (I really am curious about this) and is it cancer has gone up or is it we are able to more accuratly diagnose people or is it a combination of the two?

Awesome cartoon

 

[Leigh]

They could. My family didn't have jack shit just a generation ago

I expect you and them had more than you think, including a decent culture and health that allows you to study and work.

 

[Leigh]

The elephant in the room, imo, is that not only does greed transcend ism's and politics, but as far as healthcare goes, obtaining that wealth, most of the time, comes at the expense of citizens' health.

This hasn't been addressed as an overall issue with the degree of seriousness it demands.

We talk about global warming with partial pseudo-science, but the hard facts say cancer+ odd disease has gone up 1000000%.
And lawsuits only encourage corporations to continue due to slaps on the wrist.

I just don't think an ism can cure a disease of the heart.




View: https://youtu.be/WB6p5QPVhPI

I've seen this cartoon before. Whilst preserving freedoms is very important (I'm pretty libertarian), the cartoon is a bit propaganda-ish. It talks about the liberties that Americans enjoy but when it was written, some Americans had restrictions to their freedoms simply based on the colour of their skin.

America does have some extreme wealth compared to other countries. It also has extreme poverty compared to other western nations. Parts of America are almost third world - people live in squalor and if you don't have money, you don't get healthcare, higher education or fair legal representation.

I don't want to see people stripped of their freedoms but public spending could be distributed better IMHO.

 

[ThatOneDude]

I expect you and them had more than you think, including a decent culture and health that allows you to study and work.

My grandparents were the first generation here from Poland and Lithuania.
My father grew up the poor son of a poor carpenter. His father used to make him work shitty shitty jobs with him so he would push for something more, he did the same with his brothers as well.
They did have their health though.
I certainly had more than my father did growing up, but that's not saying much.

 

[Leigh]

My grandparents were the first generation here from Poland and Lithuania.
My father grew up the poor son of a poor carpenter. His father used to make him work shitty shitty jobs with him so he would push for something more, he did the same with his brothers as well.
They did have their health though.
I certainly had more than my father did growing up, but that's not saying much.

I get there are certainly people better off but a strong work ethic being instilled by your parents is very beneficial and not available to everyone.

 

[ThatOneDude]

but a strong work ethic being instilled by your parents is very beneficial and not available to everyone.

A good work ethic comes free of charge no matter what your fiscal situation is.

 

[Leigh]

A good work ethic comes free of charge no matter what your fiscal situation is.

Agreed but a good upbringing helps

 

[ThatOneDude]

Agreed but a good upbringing helps

What does a good upbringing have to do with socialism?

 

[Leigh]

What does a good upbringing have to do with socialism?

To recap our discussion, healthcare and higher education are expensive in the US. People with shitty upbringings are at a disadvantage and may not be able to afford them. Things that are taken for granted in other western nations are almost luxuries in the US.

 

[ThatOneDude]

To recap our discussion, healthcare and higher education are expensive in the US. People with shitty upbringings are at a disadvantage and may not be able to afford them. Things that are taken for granted in other western nations are almost luxuries in the US.

Being poor has nothing to do with being able to have a good work ethic. Not buying that.

Or are you saying poor people are more likely to be shitty parents and lazy?

 

[Team Bisping]

We can go back n forth about whether poor people have an excuse for there situation, or why (as we sit on our ivory tower) they haven't got out of the ghetto or off benefits. Though i've always had concerns especially here in the UK, where economically, were 5th in the world, that there are homeless or families struggling to buy food at all. It baffles me, the greed, the lack of social empathy for other humans. I believe the government has a responsibility, the whole community, has a responsibility for every person in that nation. I'm happy to pay higher taxes if it goes battling inequality.

I'm all for universal basic income, and i'm still holding hope an initiative like this which gained serious ground on the continent will make its way to the UK.

 

[Leigh]

Being poor has nothing to do with being able to have a good work ethic. Not buying that.

Or are you saying poor people are more likely to be shitty parents and lazy?

I haven't suggested either.

What I'm very definitively saying is that despite you being able to pay for health insurance and believing you come from nothing, there are in fact people who are worse off than you through no fault if their own.

For example, a child who is brought up in poverty AND has shitty parents who don't teach him to work hard and aspire to something greater.

 

[Team Bisping]

I haven't suggested either.

What I'm very definitively saying is that despite you being able to pay for health insurance and believing you come from nothing, there are in fact people who are worse off than you through no fault if their own.

For example, a child who is brought up in poverty AND has shitty parents who don't teach him to work hard and aspire to something greater.

You sir, fully understand inequality and how these issues are far more complex than just 'Stop being lazy'. kudos.

 

[ThatOneDude]

I haven't suggested either.

What I'm very definitively saying is that despite you being able to pay for health insurance and believing you come from nothing, there are in fact people who are worse off than you through no fault if their own.

For example, a child who is brought up in poverty AND has shitty parents who don't teach him to work hard and aspire to something greater.

And how do handouts help that? I really don't see it.

 

[Team Bisping]

And how do handouts help that? I really don't see it.

When all you can think about is making sure you can feed your 2 year old, how are you expected to reach for the stars?

 

[ThatOneDude]

When all you can think about is making sure you can feed your 2 year old, how are you expected to reach for the stars?

It's that attitude thats the problem. "life is hard how can I ever do this or that"
You should reach for the stars, especially if you have kids because you love them and want them to do better than you. Wouldn't your struggle be enough to want to teach your kids anything you could, even if it's the minimum of instilling a good work ethic in them? Life is hard and it's not fair. I just can't wrap my head around your statement.

 

[Leigh]

And how do handouts help that? I really don't see it.

Because people who get sick and can't afford treatment can still get treatment.

 

[ThatOneDude]

Because people who get sick and can't afford treatment can still get treatment.

People can still get treatment.

 

[Team Bisping]

It's that attitude thats the problem. "life is hard how can I ever do this or that"
You should reach for the stars, especially if you have kids because you love them and want them to do better than you. Wouldn't your struggle be enough to want to teach your kids anything you could, even if it's the minimum of instilling a good work ethic in them? Life is hard and it's not fair. I just can't wrap my head around your statement.

Of course, but not all children have that support, that drive from parents, if they do have any, it's not about dwelling on the situation but understanding the realities of it.

For instance, an initiative was put in place in poor city, to train mothers become IT literate, which sounds great, it had a high turn out at first, they even offered free childcare, the turn out was high at first, free childcare and free training? amazing, at first, then the attendance went down, but the children were still going to childcare, because instead of going to the IT course, the free time the mothers got from there childcare, they used it to work, to put food on the table. Thus the initiative fell on its ass because they failed to understand the realities of the situation.