Is Nova Uniao most accomplished camp

[kneeblock]

Jackson's has had some winners, but only Jones and Evans as champs.

Same with AKA who's only had Cain.

ATT just got its first champ with Robbie Lawler.

Alpha Male has had Dillashaw, Faber and Warren.

Cesar Gracie had Nick Diaz and Jake Shields.

But one camp has collected more major titles than any other. Nova Uniao has had:

Shooto champ Shaolin Ribeiro
Bellator champ Marcos Loro Galvao
Bellator Champ Eduardo Dantas
UFC BW champ Renan Barao
UFC FW champ Jose Aldo
UFC LW Champ BJ Penn
Pancrase champ Marlon Sandro
IFL champ Wagnney Fabiano

And that's to say nothing of the killers who just train there and new additions like JDS. The only other teams who come close to NU's success are Miletich and maybe the Lion's Den*. NU should undeniably be considered the GOAT fight team imo. They take up 60% of the top ranked guys under 145.

*Note: Black House is another close contender, but they seem not to be a formal team that regularly trains together so I don't include them.

 

[Greek777]

Nah. I'd say they're definitely up there. ut the "best ever" is subjective.

Also BJ, while he was a Nova Uniao guy after a few years, did not start with them. He was taught by Ralph from the ground up. I'd say MFS was the best in the US as far as over time... because of the way they dominated the UFC and American scene for years, and the fact even after they dismantled, their vets (Lawler) are still top of the food chain

Sylvia, Lawler, Jens, Hughes. All UFC champs. Then guys like Horn and more. Nova Uniao s defintely amazing. But let's also think of teams like Chute Boxe and Brazilian Top Team

Chute Boxe - Wanderlei (5 + year uneaten champ in PRIDE)
Anderson came up there
Shogun & Ninja (Shogun was the PRDE 2005 GP champ AND UFC LHW champ after everyone said he was done and no good. Beats the guy who was thought unbeatable, Machda)
Pele (one of the most important early pioneers)
Cordeiro (also went on to ecome one of the est coaches ever)

BTT/early Carlson Gracie team had many many guys like Big Nog (PRIDE and UFC champ), Rogerio, Arona, Filho, Wallid, VITOR, way more

Jackon's has to e noted too.

AKA is amazing and will probably have at least another belt before the year is over.

There are so many others. If you wanna include Bellator, Shooto etc titles. Teams like BTT/Carlson and Chute Boxe racked up tons of those championships.

 

[Priziesthorse]

Rockhold, Cormier, and Thomson were all Strikeforce champs for AKA

 

[Greek777]

Also, ATT, Golden Glory, so many others! Like anything, "best ever" is subjective. IMO it's super important to look back at the history of Carlson/BTT and old Chute Boxe. When PRIDE was far and away the #1 org in the world, those fighters were dominating EVERYONE.

Also for early days.. Hamer House had some bad motherfuckers. C0leman (UFC and PRIDE champ), Randleman (UFC HW champ), Tom Erikson (BAD MTHERFUCKER), Goodridge, many more

Lion's Den importance cannot be under stated. Ken, Frank, Mezger, Oleg, Mo Smith. All of them except Mezger were UFC champs. Mezger was King of Pancrase, so was Ken and Frank

Like you said, Black House is a loose fitting thng, but so many guys have been part of that camp, it's hard not to admire that group.

Of course, we can't forget Team Quest either. Randy (multiple time UFC champ), Hendo (the only man to hold two major titles in 2 weight classes at the same time), Chael (WEC champ legit despite what happened in that fight with Filho), Lindland (great fighter, Olympic medalist etc)

There are SO MANY, and I am just focusing on guys who won major UFC/PRIDE titles.

If I were to do digging, and find out all the guys in BTT/Carlson's who won titles in orgs like Shooto, etc.. The numbers would be really high

Going back to Jackson's.. Jesus. Jon Jones (greatest UFC champ ever), GSP (although it was never has MAIN home, still counts, one of the greatest ever), Condit (interim UFC champ), Marquardt (Pancrase champ), Rashad (UFC champ, even though they had a falling out later it was Jackson's he was with when he won it), Diego (TUF 1 winner when it actually meant something)


BTW in no way is this a dsagreement/tryng to sound like a know it all. I just think when you really sit and break down camps and accomplishments.. it's really impossible to pick one that is "greater" than the other. Nova Uniao is amazng, though. André Pederneiras and John Lober are true pioneers. When they started Nova Uniao, it was just amazing. Still is!

But yeah.. It's all subjective.. and just based off UFC/PRIDE/Pancrase/SF titles alone..t here are dozens of camps who have achieved serious glory and pumpd out som amazng contenders over the years


Great thread btw. Always fun to think of ths kinda thng!



Sorry fr my typos, gues. Half of my keys are stuck. I used to take the tme to go back and spell check EVERYTHNG to fix it, but it's become a huge pan n the ass, so hope you can all decipher this.

 

[Greek777]

Rockhold, Cormier, and Thomson were all Strikeforce champs for AKA

Yup, and I have a feeling that at least one more will end up champ in the UFC before the end of the year (Leaning toward Khabib, but Rockhold is also damn well possible). Plus, Frank Shamrock was later part of AKA and his influence/history in this sport is amongst the best ever. BJ spent a lot of time at AKA also while champ.

 

[Greek777]

Also, you are forgetting that Cesar had Melendez. Who was one of the best LWs on the planet, long time SF champ. Davd Terrel, too, who could've went damn far without hs injuries

But yeah, Melendez is on the level of Shields for sure.

Horse mentiond AKA had 3 SF champs.. Pretty bad ass. So did Cesar's at one time. Melendez at LW, Diaz at WW and Shields at MW. T hat's pretty fucking dominant, especially now with hindsight when you see just how great the SF guys ended up becoming in the UFC

Lol, remembr when SF was around and people tred to act like their fighters were 2nd tier. Look at how many guys who fought in SF are now wrecking shop n the UFC. It's nuts.

 

[Zeph]

Rafael Cordeiro had at Chute Boxe
Wanderlei Silva Pride Middleweight Champion
Mauricio Rua Pride 2005 Middleweight Grand Prix champion
And at KingsMMA
Fabricio Werdum UFC Heavyweight Champ
Rafael Dos Anjos UFC Lightweight Champ

 

[Greek777]

Also last post, sorry guys. But Renzo's cannot be ignored! Even though not all of these guys spent ther ENTIRE camps with Renzo, they sure spent a lot. Guys off the top of my head who are under Renzo...

GSP
Serra
Weidman
Edgar

^ All UFC champs.

There are definitely more, too. But yeah, Renzo's team has had some amazing guys who can do amazing things. I know that GSP was @ Tristar too, and Serra/Weidman also work with Longo. BUT, they are just as much part of Renzo's as they are the other teams.

Really crazy how great sme of these teams are when you really sit and think about it. I liked the IFL. I like the idea of having teams do battle. Would be cool to see the new TUF and if it's any good.

Great thread OP./ Sorry for so many posts. Yo u got m all excted, lol. Sorry for typos, again. Driving me nuts

 

[Greek777]

Rafael Cordeiro had at Chute Boxe
Wanderlei Silva PRIDE Middleweight Champion
Mauricio Rua PRIDE 2005 Middleweight Grand Prix champion
And at KingsMMA
Fabricio Werdum UFC Heavyweight Champ
Rafael Dos Anjos UFC Lightweight Champ

Rudimar Fedrigo was the guy who ran shit at CB durng the PRIDE days. Cordeiro was still fighting in those early days. BUT, by mid 2000s, Cordeiro did play a huge part in training the guys, and now starting Kings, has only increased his rep as an amazing coach. IMO, he is the best coach of the last 4 years. Not saying King's has more champions than other groups, but it's just.. what Cordeiro has been able to do with guys. Crazy transformations in ability in such a short amount f time.

Also what's crazy about Cordeiro is the two guys he has brought to titles in the UFC started as BJJ fighters. And he took them and turned them into absolute monsters standing up. NO ONE ever thought that Werdum was gonna KO Mark Hunt, and tool Browne on the feet for 25 mns.. Oh yea, and beat Fedor. The greatest ever. When he was 10 years unbeaten. And now Werdum may very well win the UFC title from Cain. People are counting him out like a joke. Well people counted him out against Fedor, Browne, Nelson, Gonzaga 2, etc... Werdum is the most improved fghter out there IMO. Cain has not fought in almost 2 years and has only faced the same 2 people since 2010, who have skill sets completely and totally dfferent than what Werdum offers. I really think it's gonna bea tough fight for Cain. I'd love to see Werdum win.

And let's not forget Shogun was not just the PRIDE GP champ.. but one of the most unexpected UFC champs in title history. 2 complete knee reconstructions later, 3 years after his career was almost destroyed.. and h comes n and beats the guy NOBODY had the answer to at the time. Machida was thought to be the next Fedor or Anderson type.. where he'd never lose and no one would come close. Shogun more than figured t out, he destroyed him when no one else could. So amazing.


All under Cordeiro's tutelage. Amazing coach and amazing mind for this sport.

I feel like I'm forgetting some people who train/trained under Cordeiro. Anyone know?

 

[Priziesthorse]

Also last post, sorry guys. But Renzo's cannot be ignored! Even though not all of these guys spent ther ENTIRE camps with Renzo, they sure spent a lot. Guys off the top of my head who are under Renzo...

GSP
Serra
Weidman
Edgar

^ All UFC champs.

There are definitely more, too. But yeah, Renzo's team has had some amazing guys who can do amazing things. I know that GSP was @ Tristar too, and Serra/Weidman also work with Longo. BUT, they are just as much part of Renzo's as they are the other teams.

Really crazy how great sme of these teams are when you really sit and think about it. I liked the IFL. I like the idea of having teams do battle. Would be cool to see the new TUF and if it's any good.

Great thread OP./ Sorry for so many posts. Yo u got m all excted, lol. Sorry for typos, again. Driving me nuts

Liam McGeary, now Bellator champ, also a Team Renzo guy.

 

[Greek777]

Word. There are so many others. I am just namng all these off the top of my head haha

Does anyone know if there's a resource that lists all team members across major camps, and what time they trained there at? Wiki just jumbles bg lists together of guys and not every team has their own page

Would be cool to have smething like that to pull from.

Also, you have to give serious credit to Ray Longo. He took two grapplers (Serra and Weidman) and turned them into LEGIT bad ass strikers.. Oh, and led them BOTH to the two biggest upsets in UFC history, over the promotions two most dominant champs of all time (sans Jones)

I mean how crazy is it to have lightning strike twice like that? Longo takes a BJJ guy and a wrestler.. and gets them to the point they KNOCK OUT GSP and Anderson Silva. Who were seen as unbeatable monsters. Even though GSP had not yet went on his big run, he was still by far considered the #1 guy in the world.

Just fucking crazy man. No one ever, ever could've guessed either of thse fights would play out the way they did. Serious respect for Longo. Imagne if 2 years from now some guy from Longo's camp dethrones Jones by brutal KO? Lol. How fucking nuts would that be?

Team Longo: The Legend Killers

 

[kneeblock]

This thread is a good litmus test for this community. Good posts fellas.

 

[Wild]

@domin8 - get in here and get educated, girl

 

[Greek777]

"NU should undeniably be considered the GOAT fight team imo."

When you really go throughout history, that's a seriously bold statement to make that can easily be disputed. BUT it is all about opinion. Seriously though, I know I wrote a lot, but take a look at some of th camps and the guys who have come out of them. t's really impossible to say one is the greatest. Bellator, Shooto etc titles are a big deal (especially when Shooto was the #1 org for lighter classes).. but there are way more camps who have had major org champions (UFC and PRIDE). Bellator and Shooto champs are usually considered ranked lower than the guys at the top of the game in the UFC (or PRIDE at the time)

Also, Team Alpha Male, while not a greatest ever camp...

Faber was #1 in the world at 145 for years in WEC (when at the time, his title was cnsidered the equal to the UFC championship)
Dillashaw is the UFC champ and destroyed Barao in one of the most impressive performances ever. Barao had nothing for him from the opening bell.
Mendes, while he is not champ, will probably beat every single guy at 145 except Aldo.

Anyway, just throwing these names out there. Hard to solidify 1 team as the greatest ever and say it's undeniable. When you really go back and look at the camps 5, 10 years ago.. GOD DAMN there were some great groups.

And hey, even though Xtreme Couture was never the greatest. They dd have some bad motherfuckers. Randy (champ at the time), Forrest (UFC LHW champ), Vitor went on his UFC comeback run while training there,

There are just soooo many.

 

[kneeblock]

The one thing I'll say distinguishes Nova Uniao is that other than BJ Penn, all of those guys went A-Z with Dede.

I think there are few who can boast that, but AKA might be a close contender when you consider Strikeforce.

 

[Greek777]

Sorry if I hijacked this thread BTW. I just get genuinely excited when going over MA history. It's crazy to sit here and think of how many amazing camps there have been over the years.

 

[Greek777]

The one thing I'll say distinguishes Nova Uniao is that other than BJ Penn, all of those guys went A-Z with Dede.

I think there are few who can boast that, but AKA might be a close contender when you consider Strikeforce.

MFS. Carlson/BTT. Chute Boxe. Those guys were all raised from the ground up with those camps. More, too.. but yea

And if you're gonna include Bellator and Shooto, then SF must be held in the same regard I feel.

 

[Wild]

Sorry if I hijacked this thread BTW. I just get genuinely excited when going over MA history. It's crazy to sit here and think of how many amazing camps there have been over the years.

Nope. It's awesome. Shit, I'm getting some education here.

 

[Greek777]

Lol, even I am. I have all this info in my brain, but never actually sat down and thought about just how great some of these legendary camps are.

 

[Greek777]

Here's a good question

If you guys could pick any ONE team to build a perfect well rounded fighter from the ground up.. What would it be?

Personally I can't choose 1. Need some time to think on that

 

[domin8]

I'm here I'm here! Getting educated but Damn u guys know a lot. Give me a sec to catch up and check out my thread plz. I really could use the advice plz and thank you.

 

[kneeblock]

Also, ATT, Golden Glory, so many others! Like anything, "best ever" is subjective. IMO it's super important to look back at the history of Carlson/BTT and old Chute Boxe. When PRIDE was far and away the #1 org in the world, those fighters were dominating EVERYONE.

Also for early days.. Hamer House had some bad motherfuckers. C0leman (UFC and PRIDE champ), Randleman (UFC HW champ), Tom Erikson (BAD MTHERFUCKER), Goodridge, many more

Lion's Den importance cannot be under stated. Ken, Frank, Mezger, Oleg, Mo Smith. All of them except Mezger were UFC champs. Mezger was King of Pancrase, so was Ken and Frank

Like you said, Black House is a loose fitting thng, but so many guys have been part of that camp, it's hard not to admire that group.

Of course, we can't forget Team Quest either. Randy (multiple time UFC champ), Hendo (the only man to hold two major titles in 2 weight classes at the same time), Chael (WEC champ legit despite what happened in that fight with Filho), Lindland (great fighter, Olympic medalist etc)

There are SO MANY, and I am just focusing on guys who won major UFC/PRIDE titles.

If I were to do digging, and find out all the guys in BTT/Carlson's who won titles in orgs like Shooto, etc.. The numbers would be really high

Going back to Jackson's.. Jesus. Jon Jones (greatest UFC champ ever), GSP (although it was never has MAIN home, still counts, one of the greatest ever), Condit (interim UFC champ), Marquardt (Pancrase champ), Rashad (UFC champ, even though they had a falling out later it was Jackson's he was with when he won it), Diego (TUF 1 winner when it actually meant something)


BTW in no way is this a dsagreement/tryng to sound like a know it all. I just think when you really sit and break down camps and accomplishments.. it's really impossible to pick one that is "greater" than the other. Nova Uniao is amazng, though. André Pederneiras and John Lober are true pioneers. When they started Nova Uniao, it was just amazing. Still is!

But yeah.. It's all subjective.. and just based off UFC/PRIDE/Pancrase/SF titles alone..t here are dozens of camps who have achieved serious glory and pumpd out som amazng contenders over the years


Great thread btw. Always fun to think of ths kinda thng!



Sorry fr my typos, gues. Half of my keys are stuck. I used to take the tme to go back and spell check EVERYTHNG to fix it, but it's become a huge pan n the ass, so hope you can all decipher this.

Also, ATT, Golden Glory, so many others! Like anything, "best ever" is subjective. IMO it's super important to look back at the history of Carlson/BTT and old Chute Boxe. When PRIDE was far and away the #1 org in the world, those fighters were dominating EVERYONE.

Also for early days.. Hamer House had some bad motherfuckers. C0leman (UFC and PRIDE champ), Randleman (UFC HW champ), Tom Erikson (BAD MTHERFUCKER), Goodridge, many more

Lion's Den importance cannot be under stated. Ken, Frank, Mezger, Oleg, Mo Smith. All of them except Mezger were UFC champs. Mezger was King of Pancrase, so was Ken and Frank

Like you said, Black House is a loose fitting thng, but so many guys have been part of that camp, it's hard not to admire that group.

Of course, we can't forget Team Quest either. Randy (multiple time UFC champ), Hendo (the only man to hold two major titles in 2 weight classes at the same time), Chael (WEC champ legit despite what happened in that fight with Filho), Lindland (great fighter, Olympic medalist etc)

There are SO MANY, and I am just focusing on guys who won major UFC/PRIDE titles.

If I were to do digging, and find out all the guys in BTT/Carlson's who won titles in orgs like Shooto, etc.. The numbers would be really high

Going back to Jackson's.. Jesus. Jon Jones (greatest UFC champ ever), GSP (although it was never has MAIN home, still counts, one of the greatest ever), Condit (interim UFC champ), Marquardt (Pancrase champ), Rashad (UFC champ, even though they had a falling out later it was Jackson's he was with when he won it), Diego (TUF 1 winner when it actually meant something)

.

Quest doesn't rate imo. Randy and Hendo did well, but most of both of their achievements were after they left Team Quest. Chael is a serial underachiever, was never technically WEC champ against a mentally ill overweight Filho and Lindland never made it over the hump.

Chute Boxe same scenario. Wand and Shogun won Pride titles there and Anderson was Shooto champ with them, and Werdum just won interim champ with them. I'd say that's their total haul.

Marquardt was King of Pancrase back when he was training with Sheldon Marr. I don't credit GSP to Jackson. He's been all over the place, but I think Tristsar has to get dibs on him.

I think Lion's Den is a close second. Guy Mezger and Jerry Bohlander both won UFC tournaments, Ken was superfight champ, Frank was King of Pancrase (as were Ken and Guy). Vernon White was KOTC champ when it meant something. Frank and Mo Smith's UFC titles, however, can't be credited to the Lion's Den.

BTT is interesting in that it only produced 2 champs in Murilo Bustamante and Big Nog. You could argue for Vitor during the pre-BTT Carlson days, though Vitor's only championship then was his UFC 12 tournament win. Sperry, Margarida and Arona had great grappling success, but that doesn't really count.

Of course, if you consolidated Carlson's lineage to include Nova Uniao, BTT, ATT and the old Arrebentacao team, you'd have the biggest trophy case in the sport.

 

[domin8]

Ok all you educated people, since I'm not getting many replies, I'll ask here. If any of you live in Texas, in Corpus Christi, hit me up with some good gyms to train at. Plz

 

[Greek777]

Randy won his first titles with Team Quest and Dan's PRIDE championships were when he was with Team Quest also. Unless I'm mistaken.

 

[Greek777]

Ok all you educated people, since I'm not getting many replies, I'll ask here. If any of you live in Texas, in Corpus Christi, hit me up with some good gyms to train at. Plz

I've never lved in Texas, lol, but I'll do some research tonight for ya