Race discussion with Big.Thirsty

[Lord Vutulaki]

Completely agree, in fact if anyone were to claim "pure" wouldn't it be people from Southern Africa?

Diplomatic Immunity IMHO

 

[Teen Gohan]

Diplomatic Immunity IMHO

LOL

 

[1031]

So the difference we can observe in people indigenous (and if we're honest then that word needs to get dissected) to geographic areas is a social construct?
It's usually pretty easy to differentiate someone Germanic from someone Slavic. I can go back home to Canada and pick out someone with Ukrainian heritage (not every Ukrainian mind you) relatively consistently. You can spot a Gypsy in Romania relatively easily and it's not because of clothing or language.

 

[jason73]

i claim neanderthal as my race

 

[jason73]

So the difference we can observe in people indigenous (and if we're honest then that word needs to get dissected) to geographic areas is a social construct?
It's usually pretty easy to differentiate someone Germanic from someone Slavic. I can go back home to Canada and pick out someone with Ukrainian heritage (not every Ukrainian mind you) relatively consistently. You can spot a Gypsy in Romania relatively easily and it's not because of clothing or language.

but can you tell the Ukrainians from the doukhobors?

 

[1031]

but can you tell the Ukrainians from the doukhobors?

I honestly don't remember when I ever saw one of those mythical beasts.

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

So the difference we can observe in people indigenous (and if we're honest then that word needs to get dissected) to geographic areas is a social construct?
It's usually pretty easy to differentiate someone Germanic from someone Slavic. I can go back home to Canada and pick out someone with Ukrainian heritage (not every Ukrainian mind you) relatively consistently. You can spot a Gypsy in Romania relatively easily and it's not because of clothing or language.

Thats not what the OP was discussing, the fact I can tell someone is from the tropics because of their dark complexion doesnt support the belief that our current definition of "races" isnt a social construct.

Ill use an example Leigh got me with. West Africans are the best sprinters in the world (on land lol) now this is due to a number of factors but mainly as far as we can tell due to the ACTN3 gene mutation which "gives" them more fast twitch muscles.

Now someone here stated that the fact that the last 10 Olympic medal finals have been an all black affair "proves" race is real.

It doesnt, here's how the ATCN3 gene presents per X population itself among the 3 classical races.

"." = No ACTN3 for that individual

"i" = The ACTN3 gene is carried by the individual

"Caucasians"
................i.......................i......ii....

Negros

..ii....iiii......i....i...i...i....iiii..i......ii....i

"Mongoloids"

...........i................i........................

If we use the ACTN3 as a marker to delineate between the 3 races we fail yes?

 

[Leigh]

So the difference we can observe in people indigenous (and if we're honest then that word needs to get dissected) to geographic areas is a social construct?
It's usually pretty easy to differentiate someone Germanic from someone Slavic. I can go back home to Canada and pick out someone with Ukrainian heritage (not every Ukrainian mind you) relatively consistently. You can spot a Gypsy in Romania relatively easily and it's not because of clothing or language.

The differences aren't definitive. You've listed some groups that you can identify, so list their physical traits.

 

[1031]

The differences aren't definitive. You've listed some groups that you can identify, so list their physical traits.

If I was going to make money at this then I would go about doing that but the link Big.Thirsty provided more or less did that but with more generalized groups. What I'm saying is, spotting someone who's from a different place and whose heritage is geographically separate is something people can do.

 

[1372]

Mongoloid?

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

If I was going to make money at this then I would go about doing that but the link Big.Thirsty provided more or less did that but with more generalized groups. What I'm saying is, spotting someone who's from a different place and whose heritage is geographically separate is something people can do.

SE Asians and Amazonian tribes folk share on average short stature, the epicanthic eye fold, brownish skin, jet black very straight hair.

Same "race"?

 

[1372]

Mongoloid?

Agree I'm Mongoloid throb?

Ahhhh...What will I do with you.

 

[Leigh]

If I was going to make money at this then I would go about doing that but the link Big.Thirsty provided more or less did that but with more generalized groups. What I'm saying is, spotting someone who's from a different place and whose heritage is geographically separate is something people can do.

Not with 100% accuracy. You could do something similar based on their surnames.

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

Not with 100% accuracy. You could do something similar based on their surnames.

Surnames are not a social construct cause Ive seen em with my very own eyes.

 

[Disciplined Galt]

SE Asians and Amazonian tribes folk share on average short stature, the epicanthic eye fold, brownish skin, jet black very straight hair.

Same "race"?

Now I'm hard.

 

[1031]

Not with 100% accuracy. You could do something similar based on their surnames.

I'm talking about appearance though.
I guess I'm just at a loss as to the whole idea that although it is easy to categorize people to specific geography based on appearance, it's somehow a social construct to call it "race."

Are we saying that there aren't recognizable differences and recognizable similarities when it comes to indigenous people of specific geographic areas? Is this more about terminology? The whole thing seems abstract at best.

 

[1372]

 

[1031]

Surnames are not a social construct cause Ive seen em with my very own eyes.

Not with 100% accuracy. You could do something similar based on their surnames.

Surnames were probably a much more accurate indicator of where a person came from before the advent of air travel and even more so before the "discovery" of North and South America.

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

Surnames were probably a much more accurate indicator of where a person came from before the advent of air travel and even more so before the "discovery" of North and South America.

Lee is indigenous to the UK, China and Korea. Im being an asshole now.

 

[Leigh]

I'm talking about appearance though.
I guess I'm just at a loss as to the whole idea that although it is easy to categorize people to specific geography based on appearance, it's somehow a social construct to call it "race."

Are we saying that there aren't recognizable differences and recognizable similarities when it comes to indigenous people of specific geographic areas? Is this more about terminology? The whole thing seems abstract at best.

I don't mean this to sound rude but you're trying to discuss a point and then refusing to engage. I'm happy to have a discussion but this is the current situation:

Blank: how can it be a social construct if we can identify differences?
Leigh: list some differences and I'll explain.
Blank: no
Leigh: ok, well I guess that's the end of the discussion.

 

[1031]

Lee is indigenous to the UK, China and Korea. Im being an asshole now.

So the difference we can observe in people indigenous (and if we're honest then that word needs to get dissected)...

I guess it's all social once we inject language into things but to me it seems like either an attempt to obscure or a debilitating need for precision.

 

[Leigh]

Surnames were probably a much more accurate indicator of where a person came from before the advent of air travel and even more so before the "discovery" of North and South America.

Right. So a social construct can be used to tell people apart. Historically, most Smith's had fair skin. Does that mean that surnames are physically real?

 

[1031]

I don't mean this to sound rude but you're trying to discuss a point and then refusing to engage. I'm happy to have a discussion but this is the current situation:

Blank: how can it be a social construct if we can identify differences?
Leigh: list some differences and I'll explain.
Blank: no
Leigh: ok, well I guess that's the end of the discussion.

That's a bit disingenuous, you decided not to read something and want me to paraphrase it for you. I told you why I'm not comfortable doing that.

 

[1031]

Right. So a social construct can be used to tell people apart. Historically, most Smith's had fair skin. Does that mean that surnames are physically real?

I have no idea what you're asking

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

I guess it's all social once we inject language into things but to me it seems like either an attempt to obscure or a debilitating need for precision.

Scientific definition requires precision.

Thats the problem you're having right now with defining "race" yes?

Trust me ive been there before myself