Race discussion with Big.Thirsty

[DFW4L]

Let's say you list the definitive traits for a race (which I'd like to note you have NOT).

I don't really think (know) if they exist and have said that since the jump. I believe in exceptions and accept them in hard sciences. You are requesting definitive AND exclusive, you just seem to swap those words intermittently

I think you are misdirecting the conversation intentionally by applying your own standard of 'proof' (definitive and exclusive traits) to the entire argument then brow beating people for not meeting your self-declared standards of proof, been doing this for 20+ pages.

You feel that some members of that race may not display those traits. So how would you identify which race they belong to, if you found that person in isolation?

See above, I am not attempting to source definitive and exclusive race group traits in order to support my belief that race is a valid biological classification system for humans.

If I found a person in isolation I would not assume every one of his ancestors lived in isolation for all history of the species, so that persons genetics traits I would not assume to be definitive or exclusive to any race.

 

[IschKabibble]

What percentage variation do you think is acceptable?

Only enough to qualify as a physical difference.

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

Only enough to qualify as a physical difference.

Define physical difference

 

[Leigh]

You are requesting definitive AND exclusive, you just seem to swap those words intermittently

I think you are misdirecting the conversation intentionally by applying your own standard of 'proof' (definitive and exclusive traits) to the entire argument then brow beating people for not meeting your self-declared standards of proof, been doing this for 20+ pages.

I'm not swapping the words intermittently, I'm saying both apply and simply using one or the other to discredit an argument. Yes I am brow beating with them because if you are saying that a classification physically exists, then that classification MUST have requirements. It is nonsensical to suggest otherwise.

I don't really think (know) if they exist and have said that since the jump.

See above, I am not attempting to source definitive and exclusive race group traits in order to support my belief that race is a valid biological classification system for humans.

If I found a person in isolation I would not assume every one of his ancestors lived in isolation for all history of the species, so that persons genetics traits I would not assume to be definitive or exclusive to any race.

I feel like I'm being trolled now.

• You believe race is physically real.
• You don't think (or know) if a race can be specified.
• You couldn't determine the race of someone.

Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds?

 

[DFW4L]

Yes I am brow beating with them because if you are saying that a classification physically exists, then that classification MUST have requirements. It is nonsensical to suggest otherwise.

We agree here...

you just have 100% requirements, my requirements for validity are < 100%

 

[Leigh]

Only enough to qualify as a physical difference.

I meant that if exceptions are allowed (is not all members of a race exhibit the defining traits), what percentage is tolerable as exceptions to still be classed as a race?

 

[Leigh]

We agree here...

you just have 100% requirements, my requirements for validity are < 100%

Ok, so two follow up questions:
What are the requirements?
If someone is outside those requirements, how do we know they belong to that race?

 

[IschKabibble]

You already said this and I explained I was responding to YOUR comments based on appearance.

I conceded the point about our appearances because it's the one that becomes offensive. But you still haven't refuted immunology or neurolinguistics. Because you can't. They exist. And they exist currently as a physical separation of people.

No, I addressed them. I asked if the immune system differences were exclusive to the "race" and prevalent in every member. You ignored my question.

I most certainly did not. I gave you a perfect example that still exists today in the North Sentinelese.

People of different races can learn the same language.

Well no shit. You just have to learn it. But you're not going to learn it until unless you study the physical differences (which happen to be neurological in this case) of a separate people.

 

[IschKabibble]

Now I wait for @Priziesthorse. I'm starting to regret not going to a real college. One debate class and I could have wrapped this up on page two.

 

[DFW4L]

I feel like I'm being trolled now.

• You believe race is physically real.
• You don't think (or know) if a race can be specified.
• You couldn't determine the race of someone.

Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds?

No...

• You believe race is physically real

Yes

• You don't think (or know) if a race can be specified.

I think it can, but not definitively or exclusively to a 100% standard - exceptions exist for multiple reasons, not the least of which is hundreds of thousands of years of transportation of the species, not the greatest of which is genetic mutation (absences of melanoma being an example)

• You couldn't determine the race of someone.

Geneticists can under my less than 100% accuracy standards, it's in fact a multi-million dollar consumer industry that goes by the name 'ancestry' (23andme.com)

 

[IschKabibble]

I still stand by this picture. You can nit-pick it if you want, but the picture speaks for itself. Why are you trying so hard to pretend race doesn't exist?

 

[Robbie Hart]

Leigh is taking on everyone.....he's going to win

 

[Robbie Hart]

Now I wait for @Priziesthorse. I'm starting to regret not going to a real college. One debate class and I could have wrapped this up on page two.

You're scared ish, don't call for help, you're on your own man

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

You guys are full of shit or D level trolling at this point.

LOL

 

[Leigh]

I conceded the point about our appearances because it's the one that becomes offensive.

So stop accusing me of referring to it. It's dishonest.

But you still haven't refuted immunology or neurolinguistics. Because you can't. They exist. And they exist currently as a physical separation of people.

I most certainly did not. I gave you a perfect example that still exists today in the North Sentinelese.

And I asked (and I ask again) what the immune system differences are and if they are exclusive to the Sentalise and if every Sentalise islander exhibits them.

Well no shit. You just have to learn it. But you're not going to learn it until unless you study the physical differences (which happen to be neurological in this case) of a separate people.

Nonsense. You can learn French without studying the physical differences of the French people.

 

[IschKabibble]

You're scared ish, don't call for help, you're on your own man

@Leigh and @Kirk refuse to engage in a meaningful argument. I have to defer to the smarter man. He will do it swiftly and academically, I'm sure.

 

[IschKabibble]

So stop accusing me of referring to it. It's dishonest.

It's not dishonest. But clearly offensive to you.

And I asked (and I ask again) what the immune system differences are and if they are exclusive to the Sentalise and if every Sentalise islander exhibits them.

I answered this so plainly a handful of pages back. I won't repeat myself though. Because you think that's sad.

Nonsense. You can learn French without studying the physical differences of the French people.

Neurology and language is the physical difference.

 

[IschKabibble]

You're scared ish, don't call for help, you're on your own man

Also specifically tagged @Priziesthorse per his request. I can keep going all night if that's what we're gonna do.

Someone's going to have to start making some sense around here though. You can't keep trying to redefine the word if we're arguing about the definition and intent of it.

 

[Leigh]

It's not dishonest. But clearly offensive to you.


I answered this so plainly a handful of pages back. I won't repeat myself though. Because you think that's sad.


Neurology and language is the physical difference.

None of that is accurate.

 

[Leigh]

Geneticists can under my less than 100% accuracy standards, it's in fact a multi-million dollar consumer industry that goes by the name 'ancestry' (23andme.com)

What are your less than 100% accuracy standards? 99%? 50%

 

[IschKabibble]

None of that is accurate.

Explain to me how neurolinguistics isn't a physical difference. You can't just say it isn't.

 

[Leigh]

I still stand by this picture. You can nit-pick it if you want, but the picture speaks for itself. Why are you trying so hard to pretend race doesn't exist?

I'm not pretending anything. But here you are again showing visual facial differences as an example of race. You're then going yo accuse me of being offended when I refute your argument again. I'm not offended in the slightest by the suggestion that different races are different. I'm offended by you expecting me to continually respond to your poor, repetitive arguments.

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

Explain to me how neurolinguistics isn't a physical difference. You can't just say it isn't.

Aboriginal kid raised by Japanese speaking parents. Sup now?

 

[Leigh]

Explain to me how neurolinguistics isn't a physical difference. You can't just say it isn't.

LOL the burden of proof reversal. No, YOU explain the neuroliguistical differences between different races.

 

[IschKabibble]

I'm not pretending anything. But here you again showing visual facial differences as an example of race. You're then going yo accuse me of being offended when I refute your argument again. I'm not offended in the slightest by the suggestion that different races are different. I'm offended by you expecting me to continually respond to your poor, repetitive arguments.

You haven't refuted a single thing in this thread. Only danced around the argument with word play. Nobody is talking specifics here. You're looking for an accurate specification when there never was one.

You will argue yourself to the grave on this one. I'm officially out. Good luck. Have fun.