I didn't know we were suppose to ask.
General I bought my first gun TME
- Thread starter Passive Jay
- Start date
Fuck that noxious shit, lol.
I've recently moved to a new brand of gun oil:
So you've stopped using a solvent for cleaning and now simply lubricate?
best cleaner is M Pro 7.
there's no real difference in gun oil. what you really want is the oil that's used on industrial food processing machines, but it's tough to get in gun-hobby quantities (unless you're going through gun oil by the gallon)
I do drink the Kool-Aid on Militec-1 for conditioning new weapons.
there's no real difference in gun oil. what you really want is the oil that's used on industrial food processing machines, but it's tough to get in gun-hobby quantities (unless you're going through gun oil by the gallon)
I do drink the Kool-Aid on Militec-1 for conditioning new weapons.
Engine oil has detergents in it that remove fouling caused by high heat among other things. Unlike gun oils, engine oils are researched and certified by an independent board of engineers. They also exhibit all of the qualities that gun oils claim to have.
In the case of Frog Lube, it's coconut oil, lol.
my buddy wants me to go to the range with him. What do i need to bring besides the shotgun and ammo? should i be buying some sort of ear and eye protection?
Yes. Both.
This. So this.
If you don't you'll wake up in the middle of the night with your ears painfully ringing. Eye protection kind of goes without saying. Range kits are pretty inexpensive in the event you don't have some already. Anything CSA/ANSI approved is adequate for eyewear.
You should have no issues lubricating your guns with engine oil. That being said, in my opinion engine oil will not remove copper fouling in a firearm as well as a specifically designed solvent. Hoppes has been in business for over 100 years and has put extensive research into their products.
I'm a metal worker by trade.
There are most definitely products geared towards the specific needs of firearms as opposed to the operation of an internal combustion engine (most specifically the removal of copper fouling not present in an engine) that would most likely be more well suited. I wouldn't argue that they are a necessity by any means, but once you start putting some money and time into an accurate target rifle it doesn't seem like a stretch to put a little more money into a bottle of solvent.
Quite frankly what I run through this....
Gets more consideration than what I run through this...
Are you sure of your claim? Both of the factors needed for copper fouling exist in an internal combustion engine.
Eye and ear protection is a must.
i've built my own target rifles (.6 MOA off a surplus Mauser, .3 MOA off an AR), but there are no gun oils. There's only gun oil marketing.There are most definitely products geared towards the specific needs of firearms as opposed to the operation of an internal combustion engine (most specifically the removal of copper fouling not present in an engine) that would most likely be more well suited. I wouldn't argue that they are a necessity by any means, but once you start putting some money and time into an accurate target rifle it doesn't seem like a stretch to put a little more money into a bottle of solvent.
Quite frankly what I run through this....
Gets more consideration than what I run through this...
Here's a cut/paste from some "other" forum where I wrote about the FireClean fiasco:
First thing I'm going to tell you is that gun oil has an easy job - intermittent high loads, and a lot of sitting around. There aren't any revolutionary lubricant for firearms. Gun oil is a tiny market in the lubricant industry, so certain specific combinations might be proprietary. But it’s been done before, even if it wasn't on guns. For example, you'll hear lots of old-timers recommend Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF). Fairly good gun oil qualities, very cheap, but it's not non-toxic and it stains.
There are really only two roles oil in a gun: “hydrodynamic” and “boundary”. Hydrodynamic means the parts are riding on a semi-liquid film of oil, the film working to keep the micro-rough surfaces apart. But if there's a load on the parts, the lubricant is squeezed out. That's what “boundary” lubrication is for – adding semi-solid materials to serve as a physical separator between the parts, but won't squish out. These include many molydenum compounds (all called "moly" on the package), PTFE (teflon), sulphur compunds, ZDDP, boron, and a bunch of stuff I can't pronounce. The oil you buy is actually a cocktail of lubricants and other things like detergents and thickeners.
Grease is oil that's been thickened with a metallic compound, such as lithium or barium, or a synthetic alternative. Aluminum-based greases aren't as common, but they can be much better (and expensive) than the other stuff.
A gun oil needs good boundary lubrication, with superb corrosion resistance, resistance to oxidation, a teeny bit of resistance to sweat (alkalis), and water resistance. And it needs to keep these qualities at low temps. It should also use capillary action to get to surrounding parts and down into the places you can't touch. The downside is that it might find it's way to your holster or clothes - so a great oil for your hammer pivots is not necessarily great for the slide on an autoloader. In those places, or any place where a part slides AND carries a load, you want a grease. Think bolt carriers and double-action sears. A good rule to remember is that grease on sliding stuff, oil on rotating stuff. If it slides and doesn't carry a load, grease might actually slow down the mechanism, so don't grease the little parts in a trigger (as an example). For parts that need grease, the grease simply needs to stay thick under load.
And you DO NOT want anything that has chlorines. Good boundary lubes, but they promote stress cracking. I warned you.
So what do you want? Probably a lubricant made for food processing machinery. Food grade lubricants have to prevent wear in corrosive environments and in the presence of acids, alkalis, and moisture. And they have to perform even after they've been wiped off.
What about grease? As I mentioned, my brother used to work for Brownell's, and I'm a big fan of Brownell’s Action Lube as a gun grease. It doesn't have the best corrosion/oxidization resisistance, but on internal parts, it's awesome. However, for everything else you're better off with food machinery grease. That's where you'll find aluminum-based greases made to handle significant temperatures swings, with excellent water and alkali/acidic environments, solid shear resistance, and won't oxidize like lithium-based greases.
I will absolutely state that I believe a solvent designed specifically to remove copper fouling from a gun barrel does a better job than a motor oil designed to lubricate an engine, even if it contains detergents.
I really don't want to create an argument about terminology or whatever your goal is. I have said that there are products specifically geared towards the specific needs of firearms. I addressed the example of removing copper fouling and you replied with a copy n' pasted article on lubricating. I don't think we are on the same page.
and i'm telling you that there are not specific products designed for the specific needs of firearms, there are products that are specifically marketed to firearm enthusiasts. The quantities of solvents and lubricants consumed by the firearm market is TINY compared to the industrial markets for solvents and lubricants. But firearm enthusiasts are a lucrative demographic. So companies buy industrial solvents and lubricants and re-package it at a huge mark-up. Rarely, they'll add a detergent or other meaningless ingredient so they can claim a 'proprietary formula' - but it's easier to give it SpecOps or SWAT teams for free and let the TactiCool Monkeys mimic "what the pros use".
If you're buying something that claims to be specifically made for firearms, you're paying for the marketing. The same stuff is available under a different name for a fraction of the cost.
This is what's in Hoppes #9:
Kerosene, Ethyl Alcohol, Oleic Acid, Amyl Acetate, Ammonium Hydroxide.
That's it. It used to have a benzine component, but they dropped it in the '80s.
If you're buying something that claims to be specifically made for firearms, you're paying for the marketing. The same stuff is available under a different name for a fraction of the cost.
This is what's in Hoppes #9:
Kerosene, Ethyl Alcohol, Oleic Acid, Amyl Acetate, Ammonium Hydroxide.
That's it. It used to have a benzine component, but they dropped it in the '80s.
find out if you can bring your own targets. Some ranges make you buy theirs, but if not you can print out cheaper and more useful targets.
Also, take a couple kinds of ammo (buckshot, slugs, low-recoil, birdshot) so you can see how your weapon performs/patterns and what you're comfortable shooting. Make sure you properly seat the butt-stock in your 'shoulder-pocket' EVERY TIME. Otherwise, you'll be more sore the next day than you need to be...
and have fun!
Engine oils aren't specifically designed to lubricate engines. They're designed to prevent several specific types of event which happen to occur in an engine. Coincidentally they're almost all the same events that occur in a firearm.
The 2 biggest differences between gun oils and engine oils based on anything I've seen or read is that gun oils are rarely designed to have preventative qualities like engine oil does, and engine oil is independently tested for standards where gun oil isn't. I recognize you're referring specifically to solvents, but in my case since switching from Hoppe's to Mobil 1 my guns haven't built up enough fouling to require use of a solvent even though I'm going through the same round count between cleanings.
So again, my initial question was towards Johnnyhendrixbeard regarding whether he still used a solvent in order to clean his guns or if he had switched to using a lubricant for cleaning and lubrication.Im not saying that a product has to have 'gun' written on the side of the bottle in order for it to work on a gun. Metal is metal and I was always taught to use a solvent to clean and a lubricant to lubricate. That being said, many firearm products are specifically geared towards copper and lead fouling, not present in an engine. I would sooner spend $6 on a bottle of hoppes than jugs of its ingredient list that you posted.
No need to call me a tacticool monkey. I've been nothing but cordial with you. Besides if anything, the common stigma behind hoppes is that it is 'redneck cologne' and considered 'fudd' by the tacticool community.
Among other things, engine oils are specifically designed to lubricate an engine and prevent thermal breakdown.
Regarding your cleaning practices. Keep on keeping on, as far as I'm concerned.
Motor oil, engine oil, or engine lubricant is any of various substances (comprising oilenhanced with additives, for example, in many cases, extreme pressure additives) that are used for lubrication of internal combustion engines. The main function of motor oil is to reduce wear on moving parts; it also cleans moving parts from the sludge, inhibits corrosion, improves sealing, and cools the engine by carrying heat away from moving parts.[1]