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Hauler

Hauler

Been fallin so long it's like gravitys gone
Feb 3, 2016
48,051
60,091
Zeph said:
What do you think of the tax cuts in it?
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I have to do some research on it.
Statements like "it's a $275,000,000,000 tax cut for the rich" bring out the eye rolls from me.

I get very skeptical when the media speaks of the wealthy and taxes.
 
Zeph

Zeph

TMMAC Addict
Jan 22, 2015
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Alco Hauler said:
Because it's usually riddled with untruths and misrepresentations.

"Pay their fair share" is a phrase libs pull out like a knife and people just take it as truth. It's bullshit.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nzeJrXFttg
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It's true the wealthy pay more in taxes, but they also benefit more from the stability the state brings.

The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget breaks it down to $594 billion over a decade. They used the government released figures to reach these numbers.


JCT: ACA Repeal Will Cut Taxes by At Least $600 Billion
JCX-16-17

Here Vox breaks down CRFB's breakdown, explaining who benefits from those specific tax cuts.
The GOP health bill is a $600 billion tax cut — almost entirely for the wealthy
 
D

Deleted member 1

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Zeph said:
What do you think of the tax cuts in it?
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I don't know why they are there.
I don't see them linked to a population that will move that money into a HSA....because they are already putting money into an HSA probably.


The Republican plan is as a fine a plan as Obamacare. That is to say its half assed and needs to go further. The only way it will be of any use if the other "two prongs" they are talking about behind this reconciliation bill.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, but its basically:
- Open the market highly freely and move the Americans that need government assistance into high risk pools
- Medicare for all. Medicare supplemental plans for those that can afford it/want it.

There's pros and cons with each approach, but you can easily cover 99%+ of Americans with reasonable healthcare in both models.

Most horrors of either are built on continuing to be one foot in or one foot out.

The arguments about medicaid expansion or contraction are essentially moot as either one is a shitty fix that shouldn't really be part of a full solution. Medicaid is just a way to give poor people second tier health care and is more of the same 50 year patchwork. That portion of any solution is going to fail in the long run.
 
D

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I'm seeing that I will be able to purchase a castrophic coverage plan again (ACA barred this over 30).
AWESOME.

I'm in my mid 30's and more healthy than I was at 25. I have no medical problems. I don't need or want to pay an insurance deductible to pay for my PCP visits.

Insurance should be for expensive items.

Your PCP is 33% overhead on billing alone. Just paying a PCP cash lowers the cost of that visit by almost 30%.

Your PCP visit is easily sustainable at $75/visit. The unholy blocking of lab and xray is where you get screwed. Your labs are often outrageous (like a hospital's bill that is fake) if you don't have insurance covering these items. But those items should be relatively cheap for the routine labs.

In a hospital or ER its impossible to price shop. But clinics should have transparent costs. And you should be able to budget for these instead of paying into a middle man that then forces 33% overhead to go chasing down those same dollars.
 
Zeph

Zeph

TMMAC Addict
Jan 22, 2015
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Splinty said:
I don't know why they are there.
I don't see them linked to a population that will move that money into a HSA....because they are already putting money into an HSA probably.


The Republican plan is as a fine a plan as Obamacare. That is to say its half assed and needs to go further. The only way it will be of any use if the other "two prongs" they are talking about behind this reconciliation bill.

There's more than one way to skin a cat, but its basically:
- Open the market highly freely and move the Americans that need government assistance into high risk pools
- Medicare for all. Medicare supplemental plans for those that can afford it/want it.

There's pros and cons with each approach, but you can easily cover 99%+ of Americans with reasonable healthcare in both models.

Most horrors of either are built on continuing to be one foot in or one foot out.

The arguments about medicaid expansion or contraction are essentially moot as either one is a shitty fix that shouldn't really be part of a full solution. Medicaid is just a way to give poor people second tier health care and is more of the same 50 year patchwork. That portion of any solution is going to fail in the long run.
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Won't this healthcare bill just return to how it used to be, with millions of Americans unable to afford healthcare, or am I missing something?
 
D

Deleted member 1

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Zeph said:
Won't this healthcare bill just return to how it used to be, with millions of Americans unable to afford healthcare, or am I missing something?
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Let's be clear that the current system allows you to "afford" health care but then your Healthcare coverage doesn't do anything for you because you can't afford the incredibly High deductible or you can't find a local doctor taking your insurance.
Millions are de facto uninsured currently.

Previous system had no penalties for not carrying insurance.

Of the millions that didn't have insurance, millions could afford it. The current ACA penalizes those people on their taxes. The GOP plan penalizes these people on their premiums.

To your greater point this is the reason I said it was half way and you need the extra prongs or it's still just half assed.
 
Zeph

Zeph

TMMAC Addict
Jan 22, 2015
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Splinty said:
Let's be clear that the current system allows you to "afford" health care but then your Healthcare coverage doesn't do anything for you because you can't afford the incredibly High deductible or you can't find a local doctor taking your insurance.
Millions are de facto uninsured currently.

Previous system had no penalties for not carrying insurance.

Of the millions that didn't have insurance, millions could afford it. The current ACA penalizes those people on their taxes. The GOP plan penalizes these people on their premiums.

To your greater point this is the reason I said it was half way and you need the extra prongs or it's still just half assed.
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Don't get me wrong, I don't think Obamacare is a good solution, just that maybe reforming it might have been better than essentially repealing it for the old situation. While Obamacare was a wealth transfer from the middle class to the working class, this just switches back to the middle class, while giving extensive tax breaks to the wealthiest 1%.

I've seen video clips of townhalls with republican trump supporters angry that they will lose their coverage, are these two extra prongs going to satisfy them? What are these two extra prongs? Are these actual Trump plans, or your ideal plan?
 
D

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Zeph said:
What are these two extra prongs? Are these actual Trump plans, or your ideal plan?
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It's what Paul Ryan laid out in his video town hall yesterday.

This is far more Ryancare than Trumpcare.
Let me see if I can find it.
 
Zeph

Zeph

TMMAC Addict
Jan 22, 2015
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Splinty said:
It's what Paul Ryan laid out in his video town hall yesterday.

This is far more Ryancare than Trumpcare.
Let me see if I can find it.
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That was my, basic. understanding as well. This is what the Republicans have been writing for the past 8 years, or however long, and it's 46 pages long, compared to the 2300 pages of Obamacare.
.
 
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