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MachidaKarate

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2018
553
636
I can see why you hold this view and I respect it, but you have to be aware that being able to look at the history of this nation and see greatness is a privilege. It's not part of the experience of many of us, often from birth. When a person looks back on their childhood and wonders why they grew up in a neighborhood where people they knew got killed, they were frequently hungry and their family was never quite financially secure, they start to ask questions. Did I do something wrong? Did my parents not work hard enough? Am I cursed? But in reality, there are historical forces that got us all to the points we're at now. Slavery was a beginning on this continent, followed by Jim Crow, but after the formal fall of Jim Crow there were patterns of housing and workplace discrimination that didn't have legal remedies until as recent as the last 40 years. And legal remedies are no guarantee of fixing a problem. Just a generation ago, the National Guard had to escort children into a school to enforce the law because of recalcitrant states.
I understand what you're saying, but there are plenty of people who love America precisely because, after being born into poverty, they were able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and work hard and become very successful. They appreciate that the opportunity for such success was there.

Since you bring up Jim Crow and the like, all I can say is that while they're comparatively rare, there are many Americans of color who haven't found those things to be barriers to their enthusiasm for America.

To me, patriotism is a dangerous thing because it allows us to paper over our history uncritically.
Well like I said, I think we should acknowledge the mistakes of the past but also recognize all the positives as well. All too often I feel like we dwell on the negative aspects of our past WAY TOO MUCH in this country.

I don't want the USA to be the greatest in the world. I want no human to suffer and for everyone to have the best of everything regardless of where they are. That's probably a pie in the sky vision, but if we're believing in fairy tales anyway, that's the one I want.
That would be great, but it is indeed pie in the sky I think.

I believe that the world is competitive by nature and nothing will ever change this. It's built into the very fabric of existence.

As human beings we are always competing against each other in one way or another, and nations will always be doing the same thing. Someone will always be on top. And under those circumstances, I want it to be the USA.

That doesn't mean life has to be shitty elsewhere. It just means that in the grand global hierarchy, I want us to be #1. Because if it's not us, it will be someone else.
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
22,917
I understand what you're saying, but there are plenty of people who love America precisely because, after being born into poverty, they were able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and work hard and become very successful. They appreciate that the opportunity for such success was there.

Since you bring up Jim Crow and the like, all I can say is that while they're comparatively rare, there are many Americans of color who haven't found those things to be barriers to their enthusiasm for America.



Well like I said, I think we should acknowledge the mistakes of the past but also recognize all the positives as well. All too often I feel like we dwell on the negative aspects of our past WAY TOO MUCH in this country.



That would be great, but it is indeed pie in the sky I think.

I believe that the world is competitive by nature and nothing will ever change this. It's built into the very fabric of existence.

As human beings we are always competing against each other in one way or another, and nations will always be doing the same thing. Someone will always be on top. And under those circumstances, I want it to be the USA.

That doesn't mean life has to be shitty elsewhere. It just means that in the grand global hierarchy, I want us to be #1. Because if it's not us, it will be someone else.
I hear you on the latter part, but I feel that if we're going to dream of the world we want, we should never settle for the constraints of what's realistic in the current paradigm. I have children who obviously live here in America and so I certainly wouldn't want them to ever arbitrarily suffer so some other place can reap the whirlwind. What I do believe, in fact what I know, is that there is so much excess in the G22. Incredible amounts. There is enough, right now, for this top dog mentality to die, but we just don't want it enough. This isn't universal. There are definitely some resources that are sufficiently scarce (e.g. potable water, oil, gold, copper) that there will be political struggle to determine who gets priority, but there are plenty of other things that are less scarce and that we simply hoard because of our exceptionalism, even though our government does have commendable aid programs as a strange sort of counterweight.

To me, what happened in this country with my ancestors is the same struggle that is happening in Zimbabwe, Uganda, Venezuela, the Phillipines, Palestine, Catalonia, with women in Saudi Arabia, with LGBT people in Russia, in the territories held by ISIS and with dissidents in China: the powerful flexing their might over the less fortunate to deny them their basic humanity and access to what they need to survive. I can't look away from that just for the sake of saying I live in a great country. But that said, I do believe in local efforts, at the city, county and sometimes even state level being the laboratories where we can push ourselves closer to an ideal. The nation seems too clumsy and oafish an artifact of the imperial era to really accomplish much.

The other day I learned a term, "apatheistic," which apparently refers to people for whom the existence of deities is simply irrelevant as it a) doesn't affect their day to day lives and b) even if there was some abstract entity, because of A, it wouldn't require our worship, love or attention. It's a touch beyond agnosticism and some philosophers believe it is the best description of the vast majority of people's opinions in every society since religion was a thing. My feelings on the state are similar. It doesn't require my reverence or worship. At best, it requires my constant challenge and critique, which in a roundabout way sort of brings us back to Mr. Jones, who this thread was originally about. His whole career is built on critique and suspicion of the state and he's good at it, but he wastes his platform on easily disprovable nonsense a lot of the time and on inciting anger against an imagined "other" the rest of the time. In that sense, he doesn't contribute much to the national (or international) public sphere and he's certainly not on the ground organizing communities to become more livable, peaceful, or just. He claims to do what he does under the auspices of love of country and I would contend that embedded within the ideology of patriotism there is always the potential for people like him who attempt to subvert the ideals of free thought. Just like how embedded in the ideology of communism, there's always room for totalitarianism. Marx left some poisoned pills in many of his writings and they've unfortunately been interpreted to the worst ends as we've seen in Russia, Cuba, China, Cambodia, and elsewhere. Unsurprisingly the first innovation Lenin made to Marxism was to make nationalism a cornerstone of the party whereas Marx himself envisioned it as an ideology beyond the bounds of the nation-state. I say all this to say that nationalism mixed with anything seems to be the road to ruin, even though it's a necessary precondition of modernity. It always requires a reimagining of history and a turning inward that makes the outside look more alien.

But even as I criticize it, I'm a little terrified of what will come after the era of nation-states. So maybe there's merit in what you're saying and the nation needs a little injection of patriotism to keep staggering along because who can say what will come after? The way capital is moving, the answer seems to be "networks," and all that portends. It seems like we could be heading for something much worse than the state ever was so maybe a laudable goal at least would be to have functioning, transparent, accountable states that we can be proud of, but not that we love.
 

Enock-O-Lypse Now!

Underneath Denver International Airport
Jun 19, 2016
12,230
20,288
Corporations are eating up all businesses, -- I believe it was Billy Boy Clinton who passed some bullshit during his 90's reign that allowed for this to happen.

You have to understand -- Democrats + Republicans work together behind the scenes to divide and conquer the people.

That is why we see a Republican run his course for 4 or 8 years ...then the people get fed up with it then they think they'll switch the script and make some "change" by electing a Democrat.

Unfortunatly both sides are bought and paid for -- each President during his 4 or 8 year term has a mission to make sure certain bullshit is passed -- all this over the years accumulating in the full takeover.

Clinton allowed for the Mega Mergers
Bush Jr and his use of 9/11 got the NDAA - TSA - NSA Spying - Homeland Securtiy -- yada ...yada...yada.
Obama - ObamaCare -- yada ...yada...yada....

Trump will continue the trend and presidents prior to Clinton all played their roles ....

Its not a sprint -- its a marathon and these madafucka's are slowly grinding away your freedoms.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got some good shit coming down the pipeline on Facebook - Apple ....stay tuned kiddies ....


 

Truck Party

TMMAC Addict
Mar 16, 2017
5,711
6,831
Corporations are eating up all businesses, -- I believe it was Billy Boy Clinton who passed some bullshit during his 90's reign that allowed for this to happen.

You have to understand -- Democrats + Republicans work together behind the scenes to divide and conquer the people.

That is why we see a Republican run his course for 4 or 8 years ...then the people get fed up with it then they think they'll switch the script and make some "change" by electing a Democrat.

Unfortunatly both sides are bought and paid for -- each President during his 4 or 8 year term has a mission to make sure certain bullshit is passed -- all this over the years accumulating in the full takeover.

Clinton allowed for the Mega Mergers
Bush Jr and his use of 9/11 got the NDAA - TSA - NSA Spying - Homeland Securtiy -- yada ...yada...yada.
Obama - ObamaCare -- yada ...yada...yada....

Trump will continue the trend and presidents prior to Clinton all played their roles ....

Its not a sprint -- its a marathon and these madafucka's are slowly grinding away your freedoms.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got some good shit coming down the pipeline on Facebook - Apple ....stay tuned kiddies ....


You're missing the biggest things each of those 3 did to screw over people to help the wealthy/powerful/ or however you want to define the people in control

Clinton laid the groundwork that created the housing bubble, Bush rode with & certainly did nothing to stop it, & he loved talking about home ownership rising on the campaign trail. Banks raked in ungodly sums while inflating the bubble, & when the house of cards fell they also got bailed out with ungodly sums. There's also Bush's adventures in trying to turn third world shitholes into Western democracies that could fill a few threads

Obama's QE infinity. It inflated the prices of stocks, bonds, property & non-home real estate when the Fed created billions every month with the click of a mouse, while the artificially low interest rate screwed savers on the back end.

Don't have a lot of time now or I'd expand a bit on those, but the things you listed like Obamacare & the NSA/Homeland Security are tiddlywinks compared to what the wealth concentration those 3 enabled did
 
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Enock-O-Lypse Now!

Underneath Denver International Airport
Jun 19, 2016
12,230
20,288
You're missing the biggest things each of those 3 did to screw over people to help the wealthy/powerful/ or however you want to define the people in control

Clinton laid the groundwork that created the housing bubble, Bush rode with & certainly did nothing to stop it, & he loved talking about home ownership rising on the campaign trail. Banks raked in ungodly sums while inflating the bubble, & when the house of cards fell they also got bailed out with ungodly sums. There's also Bush's adventures in trying to turn third world shitholes into Western democracies that could fill a few threads

Obama's QE infinity. It inflated the prices of stocks, bonds, property & non-home real estate when the Fed created billions every month with the click of a mouse, while the artificially low interest rate screwed savers on the back end.

Don't have a lot of time now or I'd expand a bit on those, but the things you listed like Obamacare & the NSA/Homeland Security are tiddlywinks compared to what the wealth concentration those 3 enabled did

Oh yeah you are absolutely right -- in reality we could (Should!) take the time to break down the whole scheme ....in my post i highlighted the key aspects of what I feel will lead to the NWO, but as you pointed out there is much more to it then what I posted ......

The game is deep ....so deep...put dat ass to sleep!

 

Enock-O-Lypse Now!

Underneath Denver International Airport
Jun 19, 2016
12,230
20,288
Just a reminder to everyone, Enock-O-Lypse Now! @ENOCK's podcast is still only available on HAM radio via short wave transmission, or on CB radio channel 6 on I-70, in the Denver area 11pm-4am every Saturday night

lmao! you have no idea how accurate this post is ...only I'm broadcasting in the Midwest region of Nebraska, Iowa,South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, Minnesota,.

My old boy Bill Cooper broke it down for everyone how to run their own radio stations within the law.
 

MachidaKarate

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2018
553
636
I hear you on the latter part, but I feel that if we're going to dream of the world we want, we should never settle for the constraints of what's realistic in the current paradigm.
Sometimes I feel like this is the fundamental difference between (many) liberals and conservatives. Liberals maintain hope that they can achieve some utopia on earth, even if those hopes seem unreasonably far-fetched; conservatives on the other hand wish for heaven on earth but know that ultimately we have to operate within the confines of reality.

It's not that I don't admire the desire to make the world a better place. I have the same goal. But I just feel like some things are realistic and some things aren't, and as the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I think the biggest problem standing in the way of many liberal dreams is human nature. Their utopian plans all too often rely on others cooperating and doing their part in the grand transformation of society, whereas I feel like conservatives just accept that human nature means there is--and always will be--a large range of personalities at work, and some of these personalities are kind of shitty, and even the best of us are necessarily weighed down by self-interest. So there's a feeling of needing to come up with a workable plan for a complicated and fractured world that does the most good for the most people.

I have children who obviously live here in America and so I certainly wouldn't want them to ever arbitrarily suffer so some other place can reap the whirlwind. What I do believe, in fact what I know, is that there is so much excess in the G22. Incredible amounts. There is enough, right now, for this top dog mentality to die, but we just don't want it enough. This isn't universal. There are definitely some resources that are sufficiently scarce (e.g. potable water, oil, gold, copper) that there will be political struggle to determine who gets priority, but there are plenty of other things that are less scarce and that we simply hoard because of our exceptionalism, even though our government does have commendable aid programs as a strange sort of counterweight.
I don't think the "top dog" mentality is holding us back from providing aid to other countries. I'm not sure how the two would be linked.

I'd think that if we're the ones who are actually in the position to provide aid--instead of in the position of needing it--then that is what being the top dog means.

To me, what happened in this country with my ancestors is the same struggle that is happening in Zimbabwe, Uganda, Venezuela, the Phillipines, Palestine, Catalonia, with women in Saudi Arabia, with LGBT people in Russia, in the territories held by ISIS and with dissidents in China: the powerful flexing their might over the less fortunate to deny them their basic humanity and access to what they need to survive. I can't look away from that just for the sake of saying I live in a great country.
I'm not sure how the conditions in Uganda should hold you back from having pride as an American. In fact, I would say that being concerned with the fate of other nations--wanting to see them have the same democratic freedoms and stability that we have here--is quintessentially American.

Also, if anything, I would think that comparing and contrasting conditions in the United States with conditions elsewhere would only INSPIRE a sense of pride rather than the other way around. Despite some speed bumps along the way, we've done pretty well for ourselves.

But that said, I do believe in local efforts, at the city, county and sometimes even state level being the laboratories where we can push ourselves closer to an ideal. The nation seems too clumsy and oafish an artifact of the imperial era to really accomplish much.
I think that our greatness is directly related to how great we want to make things.

This is precisely why I feel like we need a restoration of national pride. You take care of things you take pride in. You work to make them better. I feel like if only we could become united under the flag and recognize that we are all in this together, and that the nation is a reflection of ourselves, then we could work to make it the city on a hill that it should be.
 

MachidaKarate

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2018
553
636
The Radiolab podcast just did an episode on Facebook censorship. It did NOT discuss Alex Jones but rather goes into the details of the community guidelines and how Facebook is policed.

It actually made me SLIGHTLY more sympathetic toward Facebook, though of course they are still assholes.

If you want to check it out, you can listen to/download the episode at the following link or look the show up on your chosen podcast app:

Post No Evil | Radiolab | WNYC Studios
 

Ted Williams' head

It's freezing in here!
Sep 23, 2015
11,283
19,071
Tomi is great. Conservatism has taken a huge upturn with more and more young people getting sick of the regressive left and joining the good guys on the right.