Ronda Rousey
- Thread starter Narcosynthesis
- Start date
P
Punch
Guest
An inspiration to us all.
Discuss.
WMMA is still in its leather helmet era. The weird thing is that no one would have been calling a division with Kaufman, Tate or Alexis Davis "weak" a few years ago. They were considered top of the food chain.
Rousey made the field seem weak by defeating all comers. Just like Royce did in UFC 1-4.
Rousey made the field seem weak by defeating all comers. Just like Royce did in UFC 1-4.
I can't speak for everyone of course but I specifically remember numerous conversations at 'the other place' talking about the sheer gulf in skill between WMMA and the men's divisions. This was way before Ronda came on the scene.
Also I'm not sure I quite understand your comment? Are you saying Ronda's division isn't actually weak?
He's saying Ronda makes the division look weaker than it is because she's so far ahead in skill level. Something can only be labeled "weak" when it is compared to something else. If Ronda retired today, tomorrow the 135 lb division would be instantly competitive again and without someone like Ronda to compare their skill levels with, "weak" wouldn't be talked about as much.
But there is a difference between being competitive and being strong......they can still be average at best fighters and as long as most are average at best, it will be competitive.
Precisely. Judging from a pure technical level women's 135 is far more skilled than men's HW outside of a couple fighters.
Both are ultra weak, but from a technical side, I'd have to disagree, the HW division is stronger IMO
Well as Weidman's right nut (Awesome name!) has said there is a difference between being competitive and strong.
If Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray retired from Tennis tomorrow the sport would be extremley more competitive but in a substantially weaker state skill wise.
Although perhaps the division being 'weak' might not be talked about much due to being less in the spotlight (With Ronda gone), people would still talk about how much less skilled WMMA is compared to the men. Those conversations still happened when Carano and Tate were champions.
@Weidman's right nut I agree with you that the men's heavyweight division is stronger then the women's 135lbs division.You have Velasquez, Dos Santos, Werdum, Overeem (K1 and European ADCC champ) and numerous BJJ black belts with much better striking like Frank Mir, Bigfoot silva , Roy Nelson and although he has just retired Nogueira. We also have K1 champions Mark Hunt and Mirko Cro-cop with over a decade of MMA experience.
I honestly don't see how the likes of Correia, Carmouche, Tate, Kaufman, Eye or Zingano could possibly be said to be stronger fighters then the heavyweights I have just named?
Edit:
Can't believe I forgot to mention Josh Barnett as well! He defeated a far more skilled Judoka then Ronda in the form of Olympic gold medalist Hidehiko Yoshida by submitting him with a heel hook!
Can you imagine any girl submitting Ronda with a heel hook? That's the difference between the divisions.
Last edited:
I would put the technical skill level of the WBW division against the men HW 's all day. You have a bunch of one trick ponys in the HW division.Well as Weidman's right nut (Awesome name!) has said there is a difference between being competitive and strong.
If Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray retired from Tennis tomorrow the sport would be extremley more competitive but in a substantially weaker state skill wise.
Although perhaps the division being 'weak' might not be talked about much due to being less in the spotlight (With Ronda gone), people would still talk about how much less skilled WMMA is compared to the men. Those conversations still happened when Carano and Tate were champions.
You have Velasquez, Dos Santos, Werdum, Overeem (K1 and European ADCC champ) and numerous BJJ black belts with much better striking like Frank Mir, Bigfoot silva , Roy Nelson and although he has just retired Nogueira. We also have K1 champions Mark Hunt and Mirko Cro-cop with over a decade of MMA experience.
I honestly don't see how the likes of Correia, Carmouche, Tate, Kaufman, Eye or Zingano could possibly be said to be stronger fighters then the heavyweights I have just named?
Edit:
Can't believe I forgot to mention Josh Barnett as well! He defeated a far more skilled Judoka then Ronda in the form of Olympic gold medalist Hidehiko Yoshida by submitting him with a heel hook!
Can you imagine any girl submitting Ronda with a heel hook? That's the difference between the divisions.
Cain looked like garbage in his last fight (new drug testing perhaps?)
Dos Santos is probably the 2nd best in the division to Werdum and he's strictly a boxer
Overeem sucks without horse meat and has the stamina of a cadaver
Mir was a one trick pony his entire career until very recently when it finally dawned on him to work on his stand up
Bigfoot is inconsistent and doesn't have any real skills other than Hulk smash
Nelson isn't even a true HW and enters every fight with only a wild swinging puncher's chance to win
Werdum is the most well rounded fighter in the HW division right now and only recently (like his last 2 fights) did he start looking adequate with his stand up.
Outside of Rousey though all you have is a bunch of women with limited skill set.....no offence
I don't think the women's 135 is anywhere near as skilled as the HWs. Look at the BJJ of guys like Nog, Mir, Werdum, Gonzaga etc....then look at the striking of Arlovski, Werdum, Overeem, Hunt and then wrestling from Barnett, Cain and so on.
Besides Rondas judo and Mcmanns wrestling which hasn't translated as well as it should've for MMA there not much else as far as stand outs in a particular skill. Also none have a complete MMA game yet when compared to the other divisions.
You would seriously argue that the ladies 135lbs division, fighter for fighter has better striking and grappling abilities then the men that I named in the HW division?
Have yourself a beautifull rainbow for that!
How many girls are BJJ black belts? How many have won K1 tournements? How many are NCAA standard? How many are life long athletes in striking or grappling? How many are a fraction as experienced in MMA as the men?
Very little in comparison to the men and it's quite incredible you would even try to argue this?
-1 bad fight dosen't make Cain a worse fighter then anyone in Ronda's division. He is easily more skilled then any female by a galaxy
-JDS is also a BJJ black belt by the way incase you didn't know. He dosen't just know how to punch.
-Overeem is still a far more skilled striker then anyone in 135lbs division even off the horse meat. (Except maybe Holm)
-Mir is a high level BJJ black belt who has submitted other highly skilled grapplers (Nogueira)
-Bigfoot is also BJJ black belt who again has better standup then most women
-Nelson weighs in at heavyweight and knocks many of them out cold. Dosen't change a thing
-Werdum actually showed good striking skills 6 fights ago against Roy Nelson so no that is a lie to say he only started to look 'adequate' in his last 2 fights.
The fact you would even try to argue this is quite puzzling given the huge abundance of evidence availible.
Last edited:
The fact that these women decided as children to dedicate their lives to fighting and martial arts is something that deserves respect not ridicule.
Now to answer your question, I don't feel like I should do all the research for you because the information is out there for anybody that really wants to know but here are a few highlights.
Ronda - Started training judo at 11 years old. Qualified for her 1st Olympics at age 17, in 2004. Bronze medal winner in 2008. Her list of accomplishments and medals in judo are too much to list. 4th degree black belt in judo.
Cat - started wrestling at age 12. she's a 2 time national champion in wrestling. 4 time all American. Started training BJJ in 2007. Purple belt in BJJ. Won the 2011 ADCC North American (West Coast) Trials at -60 kg. Placed second at the 2011 IBJJF Mundials (Purple Belt). Placed third at the 2011 IBJJF No-Gi Mundials (Purple Belt). Won the 2012 IBJJF Las Vegas Open (Purple Belt & Absolute - Master divisions)
Holm - her credentials are well documented. Started kickboxing in 2001. Multiple world title holder in several weight classes in boxing. 33-2-3 pro boxing record.
Davis - mma fighter since 2007. Started JJJ when she was 16. Started BJJ when she was 18. Has black belts in both.
McMann - started wrestling at 16. Olympic Silver medalist. 'Nuf said.
Amanda Nunes - started training boxing at age 16. Turned mma pro in 2008. Has a Black belt in BJJ and Brown belt in judo.
Tate - started wrestling in high school. Won the state championship her senior year. Was a silver medalist in the Fila grappling championships. Started pro mma in 2007. Purple belt in BJJ.
The truth is ridicule now?
Are we supposed to pretend magically that the skill level of women is now equal or surpasses any male division? Would you say to Joe Rogan or Brock Lesnar 'stop ridiculing WMMA you bunch of haters!'
Also did you seriously just write,
As children hey? Let's see if that statement is true.
I also seem to remember Bethe Correia was actually an accountant who started MMA aged 28 with no athletic background at all. Liz Carmouche started MMA when she was 26 after being a Helicopter technician in the Marines.
Sarah Kaufman took up MMA when she was 18 so again she was hardly a child was she? I could name some more from Ronda's opponents who took up combat sports as 'adults' but I think I have made my point.
It is also a fact that there is a vast gulf in skill between men's and women's sports so to say McMann is a silver medalist 'nuf said' is very misleading.
That was the first ever women's Olympic wrestling tournment in 2004 so there was hardly a rich history and vast talent pool there. In fact some have said the skill level was night and day when comparing the quality of the 2012 athletes to 2004 and it's getting significantly better each time. There has been female Judokas at the Olympics since 1992.
So McMann is nothing like a silver medalist in the men's event.
Zingano, Tate and Davis are NOT Olympic calibre athletes and have not been training submissions since they were 12 nor were they ever competing at a truly elite world class level in their sports.
Don't take my word for it listen to Joe Rogan who says there is a serious lack of talent in the division. Listen to Brock lesnar who calls the division weak.
Last edited:
Yay another Tennis fan on the site! Thought I might be the only one!You're my new favorite because you used a tennis analogy
I brought facts to the debate, you brought opinion. You lose by default.
Brock Lesnar. The same guy that won the HW title after only 3 total mma fights. The guy who had 2 fights in the UFC and only 1 win and that qualified him to fight for the title. The guy who hadn't participated in real competition in 7 years, started doing mma and wins the title a year later. Yea that's a stacked division
Also, you are taking Joe's statement out of context. He was talking about the lack of talent compared to where Ronda is at not the overall lack of talent.
Roy Nelson, dangerous on the feet, can take you down and is BJJ black belt
Verdum, dangerous on the feet, can take you down and is BJJ black belt
Cigano, dangerous on the feet, can take you down and is BJJ black belt
Nog, dangerous on the feet, can take you down and is BJJ black belt
Mir, dangerous on the feet, can take you down and is BJJ black belt
Barnett, dangerous on the feet, can take you down and doesn't train BJJ but has dangerous submission skills
Arlovski, dangerous on the feet, can take you down and doesn't train BJJ but has dangerous submission skills
You get the idea.
Very few fbw fighters are as well rounded as the HWs. I think the 115lb division may have more skilled fighters than 135.
Also, to address the argument about Ronda making the division look weaker than it is, other men's divisions have had dominant champions and not looked as weak. LW was not weak when BJ Penn was mashing everyone. Welterweight was not weak when GSP wasn't losing rounds. Light heavyweight is not weak even though no one can beat Jones.
Pride heavyweight was not weak.
Verdum, dangerous on the feet, can take you down and is BJJ black belt
Cigano, dangerous on the feet, can take you down and is BJJ black belt
Nog, dangerous on the feet, can take you down and is BJJ black belt
Mir, dangerous on the feet, can take you down and is BJJ black belt
Barnett, dangerous on the feet, can take you down and doesn't train BJJ but has dangerous submission skills
Arlovski, dangerous on the feet, can take you down and doesn't train BJJ but has dangerous submission skills
You get the idea.
Very few fbw fighters are as well rounded as the HWs. I think the 115lb division may have more skilled fighters than 135.
Also, to address the argument about Ronda making the division look weaker than it is, other men's divisions have had dominant champions and not looked as weak. LW was not weak when BJ Penn was mashing everyone. Welterweight was not weak when GSP wasn't losing rounds. Light heavyweight is not weak even though no one can beat Jones.
Pride heavyweight was not weak.
