I'm glad you found my post funny. I'd be concerned if you agreed with me.
Ronda Rousey
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If you take a more carefull look at my post you will see there were plenty of facts there Cerberus. Don't act like a fool you can go to the UG if you want to write such nonsense
Some examples in response to your false statement,
Fact 1: Bethe Correia did not decide as a child to dedicate her life to fighting. She took up MMA age 28.
Fact 2: Liz Carmouche did not decide as a child to dedicate her life to fighting. She took up MMA aged 26
Fact 3: Sarah Kaufman did not decide as a child to dedicate her life to fighting. She took up kickboxing when she was 17/18 (Depending on the source)
and some more facts from my original comment,
Fact 4: Women's wrestling was only introduced in 2004 at the Olympics.
Fact 5: Zingano, Tate and Davis are not Olympians and have not been training submissions since they were 12.
So it's very clear that I did not bring opinion I brought actual facts which proved that your 'opinion' was clearly incorrect. By your own criteria you are the one that has lost but please don't behave in such a stupid way. Talking about 'winning' or 'losing' in an online discussion is pathetic.
This isn't the UG so don't behave like you are on there.
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Brock Lesnar. The same guy that won the HW title after only 3 total mma fights. The guy who had 2 fights in the UFC and only 1 win and that qualified him to fight for the title. The guy who hadn't participated in real competition in 7 years, started doing mma and wins the title a year later. Yea that's a stacked division
Also, you are taking Joe's statement out of context. He was talking about the lack of talent compared to where Ronda is at not the overall lack of talent.
What the hell is wrong with you? We have already had this exact discussion on another thread.
VID - Brock Lesnar talks 'super beast' Ronda Rousey: 'A super athlete in a weak division' | The MMA Community Forum
Why are you repeating yourself like this it's ridiculous. If you cannot remember a conversation just 8 days ago then I don't know what to tell you.
Brock Lesnar is a bit more of a credible source then you on MMA and faced substantially tougher competition then Ronda ever has so it's obvious who people are going to take seriously if they are not mentally ill.
Why even bother?
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I think people are equating "weak" with thin, which isn't really fair to the fighters. In fights with fighters not named Ronda Rousey, we see a lot of back and forth among some of the top contenders at women's BW. Cat Zingano vs. Meisha Tate is one of the best fights I've ever seen period. There were some excellent scrambles, great sub attempts and gutsy striking exchanges in the fight. That's what I mean when I say wmma puts on more skillful, technical fights than HW. They have shown that ability routinely at 135 and even more so at 115.
There have been some great HW fights lately, but how many of them are there overall? I can think of maybe 5 since 2010 in terms of skills demonstrated (not hype leading up to it or earth shattering sudden KO).
WMMA BW has some talent, but not enough fighters either at present or historically. And Ronda is something special. She's definitely a super athlete towering over a lot of women coming in from martial arts culture or a few years removed from athletic success. Her striking certainly came along better and faster than Brock's did.
There are so few female bw fighters on the roster fighting so seldom that it's hard to build any kind of narrative for good or ill about the division. The women that are there are the best that are out there and Ronda is simply better, much as Anderson was at a very thin MW other than the last couple years of his career.
But 115 is a shark tank with a lot of parity. That's the division to watch imo.
There have been some great HW fights lately, but how many of them are there overall? I can think of maybe 5 since 2010 in terms of skills demonstrated (not hype leading up to it or earth shattering sudden KO).
WMMA BW has some talent, but not enough fighters either at present or historically. And Ronda is something special. She's definitely a super athlete towering over a lot of women coming in from martial arts culture or a few years removed from athletic success. Her striking certainly came along better and faster than Brock's did.
There are so few female bw fighters on the roster fighting so seldom that it's hard to build any kind of narrative for good or ill about the division. The women that are there are the best that are out there and Ronda is simply better, much as Anderson was at a very thin MW other than the last couple years of his career.
But 115 is a shark tank with a lot of parity. That's the division to watch imo.
I'm tired of arguing about it. You can keep thinking wmma is nothing but a bunch of secretaries looking to stay in shape and I'll choose to believe they've been training mma for years and hold high ranking belts in whatever martial art they chose to focus on. No opinions are going to change here.
I didn't bring up Bethe and Carmouche because I don't think they are top 10. I focused mainly on the top ranked women. As far as Kaufman goes she is a brown belt in bjj and has been an mma pro since 2006. It was said none of these women have any experience and they all possess limited skills. I think I proved that's not true, at least for the top ranked females.
Also, LOL at the UG. Maybe I lost my composure in this thread because of the personal attacks on here lately. It's like someone opened the floodgates and every troll from the UG made an account here in the last week. I would love nothing more than to have a debate and have it end in a mutual disagreement and we move on.
I get the difference between weak and thin.....WBW is weak
If you mean that you are tired of having your arguments clearly refuted then yes I can understand that.
Also when did I or anyone else state that professional women MMA fighters in the UFC are just a bunch of secretaries looking to stay in shape? Seriously give this drama a rest it's just annoying to read such nonsense.
You can believe whatever you wish to believe but when you try to convince others of things which are patently false then expect to be refuted.
I know exactly why you didn't bring up Correria or Carmouche. It was because they didn't fit the little narrative you were trying to paint of all Ronda's opponents being warriors since they were kids deciding to dedicate their entire lives to fighting.
Since when did I or anyone else on this thread state NONE of these women have any experience and all possess limted skills? Try responding to what has actually been written in a comment rather then what you are imagining.
Well when you lose your composure you lose your credibility. Remember that next time before you lie about what someone has written and mock a Professional fighter who has fought in the UFC for making a valid point.
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I'm ready to go another round.
And I know why you did bring them up. It was because you needed some examples of women with limited experience and skill level after I presented you with 7 of the top ranked fighters in the division that did. And it's telling that you had to skip the top fighters and go right to the bottom feeders to do it.
Well you got me there. You didn't say NONE and ALL. But I did respond directly to your questions with facts and you proceeded to respond to things I never said and basically shit on McMann's credentials with your opinion. It's obvious what you were insinuating with the above comment but you lacked the knowledge to really say what you wanted to say so you needed me to do the research for you, and I did. Then once you were presented with the evidence you lacked a relevant response and proceeded to divert attention from the facts and insert opinion.
McMann - You said, "Women's wrestling was only introduced in 2004 at the Olympics". Ok. BJJ has never been introduced. Experience is experience. I'm not comparing men's wrestling to women's wrestling but at the same time they don't give out Olympic medals just for showing up. McMann is a high level wrestler, even if it hasn't translated into mma of late.
You said, "Zingano, Tate and Davis are not Olympians and have not been training submissions since they were 12." Nobody said they were Olympians. Learn how to comprehend what you are reading. Also, who said they were training submissions at 12 years old? Once again, interjecting your own thoughts and pinning them on me and then refuting those thoughts and prancing around as if you made a point. I simply answered the questions you asked by taking the time to research a little bit of their bios.
I answered your initial questions with facts and you chose to argue points I never brought up and use "women's wrestling was only introduced in 2004 at the Olympics" as some kind of magical point that proves something, when in reality it proves nothing. I guess everyone is supposed to infer women's wrestling was weak in 2004 and therefore it nullifies McMann's accomplishment. That's an opinion, bro.
That's called an exaggeration with just a splash of sarcasm. Sometimes it's completely lost on the internet, as it was this time.
Refute it all but when you do try to stay on point and refute things I actually said.
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Bring it on!
We'll see if you get tired again!
The term is actually known as refuting an argument. In this case you made a blanket statement that implied that all of Ronda's opponents had been training since childhood which was easily disproved. I named 3 opponents she has faced that had only taken up combat sports when they were adults including Ronda's last opponent (who was undefeated 9-0) who only 5 years ago was sitting around in an Office as an accountant and had no striking or grappling experince whatsoever before her late 20's. I could go through some of her early opponents as well but I think I have made my point.
Unless you think a man who only takes up MMA with no striking or grappling background aged 28 and get's a UFC title shot after being undefeated in 9 fights does not prove that the division is weak?
Are you forgetting I also responded directly to your questions with facts but it was actually you that responded to things I never said?
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Yes because I never once said or implied that WMMA was a bunch of secretaries looking to stay in shape did I?
A common theme with you is that telling the truth is apparently shitting on someone's credentials or being a 'hater'.
Am I shitting on my own country of the UK when I state that it is not as strong as the USA militarily or economically or am I just telling the truth? Serious question which is it Cerberus?
Men have been Wrestling at the Olympics since 1896. That's over 100 years. Sara McMann took part in the first ever Women's wrestling event at the Olympics in 2004. There are a substantially higher number of men who wrestle then women not only in the USA but worldwide and have been doing it for a substantially longer period of time. How many women compared to the men wrestle in Russia and Eastern europe for example?
It is therefore not inaccurate to state that the talent pool that McMann faced cannot be remotely compared to the men's division, therefore her silver medal does not carry the same prestiege as it would in the men's and should not be thought of in the same light. That's all was saying.
I cannot find it right now but there is a quote from someone called William Mitchell, who is the director of Future Olympian program at California USA wrestling. He says something along of the lines that the difference in skill level between the women wrestlers of 2004 at the Olympics compared to now is almost night and day. That's how far the sport has come already.
Think of MMA in 1995 compared to 2005 if it helps you understand the point better.
So no Cerberus I did not lack the knowledge to say what I really wanted to say and did not need you to do any research for me. I thought this point regarding McMann was rather self evident but I obviously over-estimated your knowledge of the subject at hand. Perhaps that is why you have the unrealistic opinion that you do?
Also do not again lie and say I lacked a relevant response and tried to divert attention from facts and insert opinion. You are projecting what you yourself are actually doing onto me. I have used nothing but factual evidence so stop making stuff up if you want to have an actual discussion.
I said Zingano, Tate and Davis were not Olympians to illustrate the point that there is a substantial difference in Olympic level athletes and high school or state athletes. Have you never had a discussion before online or a real life debate because you come across as if that is actually the case.
Olympic male wrestlers would completely destroy high school and state wrestlers such is the gulf in skill level. I said Ronda is an Olympic level athlete who has been training submissions since she was 12 to illustrate the sheer gulf between her and Zingano, Tate and Davis when it comes to a major component of MMA.
Is this really so difficult to understand here? There is a reason why Brock Lesnar called Ronda a super athlete in a weak division. He wasn't being a 'hater' nor was he intimidated by her being a strong independent woman.
You can state 2+2=5 all you want it dosen't make it true and do you really think people here are incapable or reading or something? My comments are full of 'facts' which can easily be confirmed.
Your facts include statements such as ,
Not true
The sheer number of BJJ blacks belts and superior striking abilities of the HW division not to mention the fact they are much more experienced and have been doing MMA longer easily refutes your nonsense claim. So no your 'opinion' was not a 'fact'.
I've already answered the 2004 Olympics point but incase you have already forgotten it (like the Brock Lesnar conversation) I'ii sum it up again quickly.
-Men's started wrestling at the Olympics 1896
Women started in 2004.
-A substantially higher number of men worldwide wrestle then women who only make up a tiny minority by comparison
-Conclusion, the women's talent pool is not even a fraction as deep therefore McMann's silver medal at the first ever women's Olympic wrestling event cannot be thought of in the same light as someone who has won it in the men's event. Coaches have also stated that the women's game is already at a higher level now then 2004.
That's not 'opinion' bro that is a fact.
It's hard to tell sometimes because when someone writes alot of nonsense it becomes difficult to tell when they are being serious or not. Although sometimes when someone has been disproved they like to backtrack and claim they were only being sarcastic. Like you did on the Brock lesnar thread.
I already did previously but you seem determined to be disproved over and over and over again so here we are still.
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