General Russia Ukraine round 2 Price hike boogaloo

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kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
22,917
Something I haven't seen in this thread, so I figure I'll contribute because now we're all pivoting from being experts on infectious diseases to being geopolitical experts.

Something the geopolitical angle obscures is that nations and their leaders rarely are motivated by various chess games with foreign powers. Most of this perception of international relations comes from folk mythologies of royal courts like we'd see in various television shows and some of the cold war framework of understanding the world taken up in the west and fueled by game theorists and their ilk.

Similarly, the psychologizing of Putin, his personal thoughts and feelings, mental health, emotional state or sentimental attachment to the idea of an imperial Russia obscures many things. This has been a dominant narrative in media. While it's useful in some cases, even autocrats have to mobilize a lot of institutions and usually themselves serve at the behest or tolerance of someone else. While Putin's control of the Russian political system is largely absolute, this is not unique to him or their political system. As one Russian friend has belabored to me, Russia has never in its history been a democracy. It wasn't under the emperors or the tsar or the Soviets or Yeltsin or this current regime. Still and all, like many past absolute leaders, Putin's reign has been in a bit of decline for the last few years and may be dovetailing with some reports of a physical ailment that could threaten his health. The latter is largely a rumor, but may as well get thrown on the pile with other explanations for why he's willing to pursue what seems like an irrational course of action. While his popularity among the older folks and the oligarchs may be strong, there have been doubts that he should continue past the next "election" cycle.

Of most interest is who precisely Putin serves at the indulgence of, specifically the oligarchs. In this case the US sanctions gave us an opportunity to look at a couple of them.




These are Putin's homies and pretty much get sanctioned every time he does anything the US or Europe don't like.

But the vaunted oligarchs as a class are worth examinging closely overall because as a class they control most of what happens internally in Russia and Russian politics.

Some basic primers:



If you want a whole book on the political system: Verso

So any and every analysis about whatever Putin's ambitions are, what Ukraine represents, as well as why NATO and the US are at all relevant to this story that's largely being driven by internal Russian politics should start with an analysis of those politics and specifically how the wealthiest and most powerful people in the country are desperately trying to hold on to the system they and Putin built together, even at great potential cost.
 

La Paix

Fuck this place
First 100
Jan 14, 2015
38,257
64,390
Something I haven't seen in this thread, so I figure I'll contribute because now we're all pivoting from being experts on infectious diseases to being geopolitical experts.

Something the geopolitical angle obscures is that nations and their leaders rarely are motivated by various chess games with foreign powers. Most of this perception of international relations comes from folk mythologies of royal courts like we'd see in various television shows and some of the cold war framework of understanding the world taken up in the west and fueled by game theorists and their ilk.

Similarly, the psychologizing of Putin, his personal thoughts and feelings, mental health, emotional state or sentimental attachment to the idea of an imperial Russia obscures many things. This has been a dominant narrative in media. While it's useful in some cases, even autocrats have to mobilize a lot of institutions and usually themselves serve at the behest or tolerance of someone else. While Putin's control of the Russian political system is largely absolute, this is not unique to him or their political system. As one Russian friend has belabored to me, Russia has never in its history been a democracy. It wasn't under the emperors or the tsar or the Soviets or Yeltsin or this current regime. Still and all, like many past absolute leaders, Putin's reign has been in a bit of decline for the last few years and may be dovetailing with some reports of a physical ailment that could threaten his health. The latter is largely a rumor, but may as well get thrown on the pile with other explanations for why he's willing to pursue what seems like an irrational course of action. While his popularity among the older folks and the oligarchs may be strong, there have been doubts that he should continue past the next "election" cycle.

Of most interest is who precisely Putin serves at the indulgence of, specifically the oligarchs. In this case the US sanctions gave us an opportunity to look at a couple of them.




These are Putin's homies and pretty much get sanctioned every time he does anything the US or Europe don't like.

But the vaunted oligarchs as a class are worth examinging closely overall because as a class they control most of what happens internally in Russia and Russian politics.

Some basic primers:



If you want a whole book on the political system: Verso

So any and every analysis about whatever Putin's ambitions are, what Ukraine represents, as well as why NATO and the US are at all relevant to this story that's largely being driven by internal Russian politics should start with an analysis of those politics and specifically how the wealthiest and most powerful people in the country are desperately trying to hold on to the system they and Putin built together, even at great potential cost.
Came here to post this.
 
M

member 1013

Guest
Something I haven't seen in this thread, so I figure I'll contribute because now we're all pivoting from being experts on infectious diseases to being geopolitical experts.

Something the geopolitical angle obscures is that nations and their leaders rarely are motivated by various chess games with foreign powers. Most of this perception of international relations comes from folk mythologies of royal courts like we'd see in various television shows and some of the cold war framework of understanding the world taken up in the west and fueled by game theorists and their ilk.

Similarly, the psychologizing of Putin, his personal thoughts and feelings, mental health, emotional state or sentimental attachment to the idea of an imperial Russia obscures many things. This has been a dominant narrative in media. While it's useful in some cases, even autocrats have to mobilize a lot of institutions and usually themselves serve at the behest or tolerance of someone else. While Putin's control of the Russian political system is largely absolute, this is not unique to him or their political system. As one Russian friend has belabored to me, Russia has never in its history been a democracy. It wasn't under the emperors or the tsar or the Soviets or Yeltsin or this current regime. Still and all, like many past absolute leaders, Putin's reign has been in a bit of decline for the last few years and may be dovetailing with some reports of a physical ailment that could threaten his health. The latter is largely a rumor, but may as well get thrown on the pile with other explanations for why he's willing to pursue what seems like an irrational course of action. While his popularity among the older folks and the oligarchs may be strong, there have been doubts that he should continue past the next "election" cycle.

Of most interest is who precisely Putin serves at the indulgence of, specifically the oligarchs. In this case the US sanctions gave us an opportunity to look at a couple of them.




These are Putin's homies and pretty much get sanctioned every time he does anything the US or Europe don't like.

But the vaunted oligarchs as a class are worth examinging closely overall because as a class they control most of what happens internally in Russia and Russian politics.

Some basic primers:



If you want a whole book on the political system: Verso

So any and every analysis about whatever Putin's ambitions are, what Ukraine represents, as well as why NATO and the US are at all relevant to this story that's largely being driven by internal Russian politics should start with an analysis of those politics and specifically how the wealthiest and most powerful people in the country are desperately trying to hold on to the system they and Putin built together, even at great potential cost.
No shit, Sherlock
 

Gully Foyle

Active Member
Jun 16, 2021
155
183
Also, anyone else thinking old Mitt has been looking pretty smart on this one in hindsight given 2015-present?


View: https://youtu.be/uCrebJAajCI
Romney looking like Nostradamus right about now.

They've all been soft on Putin and overlooked his true intentions. From Bush down to Obama, and then worst of them all Trump. This is an interesting series on Putin, this guy is an opposition politician that they tried poisoning more than once, he ended up in a coma and survived.

This series has a lot of good info.


View: https://youtu.be/yIibXQU_dgo
 
D

Deleted member 1

Guest
"That senator McCarthy was really on to something."

- @Splinty , probably
Bush sucked off Putin even when he hated it in an attempt to smooth Russian relations and encourage their own democracy. Supported them running the G8 summit, walked hand in hand around the Black Sea, and kept his Putin criticism.gentle and private to Putin himself.

And then Russia invaded South Ossetia anyways in its first practice run for annexation by passport that would be followed as we are seeing now.

It's not McCarthyism when it's accurate. If Putin was going to do anything different he would have done it with Bush during their bromance.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,911
56,381
Bush sucked off Putin even when he hated it in an attempt to smooth Russian relations and encourage their own democracy. Supported them running the G8 summit, walked hand in hand around the Black Sea, and kept his Putin criticism.gentle and private to Putin himself.

And then Russia invaded South Ossetia anyways in its first practice run for annexation by passport that would be followed as we are seeing now.

It's not McCarthyism when it's accurate. If Putin was going to do anything different he would have done it with Bush during their bromance.
It's McCarthyism when Russia doesn't pose any sort of realistic threat to America.
 

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,224
Also, anyone else thinking old Mitt has been looking pretty smart on this one in hindsight given 2015-present?


View: https://youtu.be/uCrebJAajCI
How? He is still wrong.

Russia won't even be able to beat shitty Diet Russia in the upcoming war, let alone pose an economic or military threat to the US. It's a weak shithole with nukes. Can't be directly invaded (at least not yet) but it can't project power beyond some very limited cases.

Even China is not actually a geopolitical threat, but if you were going to name one that would be it.

Everything about Russia is actually about China now. The goal of weakening Russia only matters insofar as it weakens China.
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
22,917
How? He is still wrong.

Russia won't even be able to beat shitty Diet Russia in the upcoming war, let alone pose an economic or military threat to the US. It's a weak shithole with nukes. Can't be directly invaded (at least not yet) but it can't project power beyond some very limited cases.

Even China is not actually a geopolitical threat, but if you were going to name one that would be it.

Everything about Russia is actually about China now. The goal of weakening Russia only matters insofar as it weakens China.
 

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
8,912
14,224
In US foreign policy circles, this gif is accurate.

That's what 'the pivot to Asia' means.

They want to separate Russia from China, there's just infighting about it how they want to do it. Some want to destroy Russia (Biden) to then more easily deal with China, others want to bring Russia into the fold to target China straight up (Trump).
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
22,917
Some other news around town about Cobra Commander himself. Wonder where he is right now.