BeardOfKnowledge
The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Zany is probably more accurate, but sure.
Zany is probably more accurate, but sure.
Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $
TMMAC Addict
I know they aren't synonyms which is why it perplexes me that they
use the Bible as a basis for being anti abortion.
They could just say they oppose it because they feel its wrong
and care for the unborn.
No further explanation needed
However they tend to throw the Bible into it instead of just making a rational case.
BeardOfKnowledge
The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
I'm pointing out that those who invoke the Bible to oppose abortion and those who are conservative who oppose it don't necessarily oppose it for the same reasons. I know a bunch if conservatives who oppose abortion, and their logic has nothing to do with the Bible. The explanation is generally based around personal responsibility and value of human life.
Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $
TMMAC Addict
Me: "Whole anti abortion movement for religious reasons sounds silly
and entirely disingenious to me."
We said the same thing.
I said specifically doing it for religious reasons is what perplexes me
BeardOfKnowledge
The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
At the outset you had equated conservatism and religion. I'm just trying to have you decouple those 2 ideologies from one another.
I agree that saying "The Bible!" isn't a great explanation, but unfortunately both sides of the abortion debate invoke equally stupid lines of reasoning.
Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $
TMMAC Addict
I did decouple them. You misinterpreted my words
and made a connection I was not intentionally making
I started out with a general statement then explained the specific
scenario that perplexed me.
Perhaps I could have worded it better.
As for the 2 sides I don't care for either.
Abort or don't abort. None of my business
I don't have kids nor do I care for them in one way or the other
Wintermute
Putin is gay
You should check out the chapter on abortion in Freakanomics.
BeardOfKnowledge
The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
*Eugenics has entered the chat*
nuraknu
savage
Some kooky sounding stuff out of Pennsylvania now -- don't know all the details, but what I read sounds a lot like the opposite of what republicans should be fighting for in terms of privacy and choice, even if they're anti-abortion.
View: https://twitter.com/ValArkooshPA/status/1397267608236265473
View: https://twitter.com/ValArkooshPA/status/1397267608236265473
BeardOfKnowledge
The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
The form I think might actually be helpful for closure after having a miscarriage because that's one thing no one offers you. You lose a child and everyone pretends you didn't have one.
A financial penalty though is completely beyond me.
D
Deleted member 1
Guest
Oh God no.
I deal with women who have miscarriages on weekly basis. The only truism in miscarriages is that everyone responds different. From grief to when they want to get pregnant again to how they want to view the miscarriage. For any woman getting closure from calling her 6 week spontaneous miscarriage a fetal death there are at least (I would guess higher) as many women harmed by this.
Instead of forcing paperwork to a traumatic event, and making it a matter of government records, destigmatizing miscarriage would be much more helpful in creating an open support group so these women don't feel alone.
This is transparently a move to remind women getting an elective abortion that they killed their fetus. And in the process I believe it only further stigmatizes spontaneous miscarriages.
BeardOfKnowledge
The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Not treating miscarriages as deaths is the leading cause of the stigma around them as I pointed out in the post you quoted.
Cutting off the last sentence so you can open with "Oh, God no." so you can undermine someone's lived experience is, well, I honestly don't even have words for it.
D
Deleted member 1
Guest
You're the one suggesting a forced blanket rule for all women.
I am suggesting that forcing anything on such a personal and private event is inappropriate.
But don't let that stop you from coming after me personally.
BeardOfKnowledge
The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Who fills out a death certificate? Is it not like filling out a birth certificate?
You've also grossly mischaracterized the entire interaction. Is what it is, I guess.
D
Deleted member 1
Guest
says it in the post at hand ... the women are required to do so.
No.
There is a difference in agreement on life, privacy, and view of the event in birth versus miscarriage. It is the crux of the entire abortion debate. And it's even further muddled in variety of opinions when considering a spontaneous miscarriage instead of an elective abortion.
Not everyone views their 4 week miscarriage as a death. Not every religion does. Not every woman wants public record of their miscarriage in government systems. If you want to sanctify life and let women fill out a fetal death certificate, whatever. But the law says forced and you think it'll be helpful. I simply think that it will help as many people as it hurts.
BeardOfKnowledge
The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
I was asking about regular death certificates. Not the ones spoken about in this law.
Regarding the rest of the post, you're grossly mischaracterizing what I said at the outset. I said it "might" be helpful, I also pointed out that the financial aspect is stupid which to most would suggest that I'm not saying "This is great!" but rather "Maybe there's something here with thinking about."
When my wife had her miscarriage the thing that made it the hardest for her was that the members of the medical community we encountered treated it like it was a thing that happens all the time, no big deal, on to the next one. The words "I'm very sorry this happened." were never uttered. So when someone says "we're going to start acknowledging that a fetus has died." I don't immediately view that as a horrible thing. I'm very aware of how often miscarriages happen, but that's cold comfort to a grieving mother who's lost an unborn child.
D
Deleted member 1
Guest
No way for me to figure this out broham when you quote a post about a specific form about a specific law proposed
Correct and I'm highlighting where I think it will be hurtful
There's a reason I didn't quote that. Why would I quote and argue with something I agree with? You quote things that are the topic you want to discuss. I am discussing the law and form proposed specifically
I'm sorry you guys went through that. As I tell my patients there's literally no way that I can be in your shoes because each miscarriage impacts each person completely differently. All I can say is however you feel about it is okay and normal.
But specifically to the topic at hand We aren't just acknowledging it. The topic at hand is a forced government record of a very gray area topic.
M
member 1013
Guest
Wtf
BeardOfKnowledge
The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
I'd venture to say that online text isn't the best format to have nuances discussions about sensitive subjects, but it is, what it is.
I understand, but when you lead with "Oh, God no" the rest of the post comes off as rather emphatic.
Because it gives some context to the rest of the post.
As I said even from my original quoted post that began this interaction. I don't look at this and say "Fuck, this is a great idea." I'm saying that the idea in and of itself probably isn't without merit. The other thing to consider as a care provider is that whether or not a woman has had a miscarriage can be relevant to a picture of her overall health in other areas and down the road should she decide to try to have another child. When you go to a fertility clinic it's one of the first questions they ask. I'll say I don't like the idea of having some grieving mother and shoving a form in her face and telling her "Fill this out, or the cops will take you away." which is why I asked about who fills out a death certificate in other cases. In either case, we routinely do things in society that are just as callous or worse, but for whatever reason we as a society have decided that miscarriages aren't something we're going to talk about.
Shinkicker
For what it's worth
Im very sorry to hear this. *hugs* But me being the one (nurse) who doesn't know what to say sometimes, in our defense (the medical team) the most common thing that the woman (especially young) wants to hear is that this is a common thing that occurs i.e. "You did nothing wrong to cause this, don't feel guilty". The majority of the time the initial questions are 'why' or 'what did I do wrong ', the grieving comes later.
I have had some though that skipped straight to grieving and I try to pick up on it by their questions or actions and move straight to comfort measures. I'm sorry your wife's medical team didn't pick up on this. But it's hard for us, too.
I don't believe this death certificate should even be mentioned unless the mother asks for it. This is a terrible idea, imo.
Miesha's Taint
Miesha's Taint
