IMG/GIF The merit of rewatching fights

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Zeph

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Jan 22, 2015
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nah, you don't have to. I just watched the fight closely without any commentary. Watched Big John's update on the scoring criteria. I wanted to get your take on it since you know the criteria well. I was just curious if your opinion changed after re-watching.

I was giving the slight favor to Brunson after evaluating everything I saw and taking the new scoring criteria into account but wanted to know what you thought if you had the chance to see it again.

I'm on the same page as you as far as what happened when Silva was in guard. With silva in guard, the refs consider that an equal position according to big John’s video on the scoring criteria. So the next criteria I looked at during this position was who was being more effectively offensive. No one was really advancing positions or pursuing submissions so I looked at the striking. At that point during the last round, Brunson couldn’t bridge enough space to generate much force with silva closing that gap while in guard, but when a gap was open, silva took that chance to throw multiple elbows. Brunson landed many small pitter patter weak shot, but I would weigh Silva’s Elbows of greater precedence. The fact that Big John says one solid cross that impacts should weigh more than multiple jabs. I’m applying a similar rule here in this case. Either way, I can also see it being even or favoring no one at that point.
That's exactly my take on what happened on the ground. Watching live I had Brunson rd1, Silva rd2, and Silva rd3, due to being slightly ahead before the takedown and landing the better shots on the ground. I'll rewatch it either today or tomorrow.
 

sparkuri

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Jan 16, 2015
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Fedor vs Arlovski . Everbody thought he was tagging Fedor , but when it was shown in slow motion he was barely touching Fedor.

I use to point this out, but Juanandonly @Juanandonly called me crazy, which is true, but irrelevant.
Fedor even gives him a shake-off like "nah", very subtle.

The other day in the Jacare thread I had to re-watch the fight with Rockhold just to make sure I remembered it correctly.
 

strikingthoughts

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Dec 1, 2015
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Please post your thoughts after you do. I'm interested.
Also watch this vid on the new judging criteria beforehand, and try judging it using it:
VID - Big John McCarthy Explains New Rules and Judging Criteria for MMA | The MMA Community Forum
I just finished watching the Silva vs. Brunson fight. Had to rewind and slow things down just to make sure certain shots did indeed land. I didn’t take into account if shots were blocked, evaded and such.


Silva was the superior when landing counters consistently, but his counters didn’t happen too often or produce meaningful impact. Brunson didn’t consistently land going on the lead but the few times he did, he would land some solid power shots worthy of note. Most notable thing to take into account was that Brunson was definitely winning the clinch exchanges. What I saw was that he wasn’t consistent on the feet, but would actually catch up tremendously in the clinch. I wrote notes on all 3 rounds. Here’s what I observed from round one.


Round 1


Silva

· Silva lands about 2-3 counters (normal-level shots)

· Silva leads and manages to land punches to the head (in about 3 different sequences)

· He manages to have control of this rhythm form the most part


Brunson

· Brunson enters the clinch on about 3 different occasions and manages to catch up in that small window of time in terms of how many strikes he manages to lands. We’re talking about 5-7 seconds of shots landing within that small time frame.

· He lands a cross (solid shot), into a takedown attempt.

· Brunson lands about 3 leg kicks


Then silva gets into guard very briefly where judges consider it an equal position anyways. So no one gets any favor there.


Here’s where things get thrown off about the first round. While Silva seemingly had control over a longer span of time, he landed a smaller volume. Brunson manage to catch up on his strikes landed exponentially just in the clinch exchanges alone. But considering he spent around 18 seconds or so in the clinch, that’s only about 6% of the time in round 1. So now you have one guy who’s spacing out his shots over a longer span, versus a guy who lands a lot in a very short window of time. Brunson’s shots did seem to have more visible impact, and he had a bit more volume in smaller amount of time. Brunson had more leg kicks landing but then again, Judges may not hold that as a high precedence over shots that land to the head.



Here’s a few notable things that caught my eye through the fight (mainly things that land cleanly)

Rd 2

- Brunson landing with leg kicks

- 3:39 silva lands a solid punch counter to the leg kick

- 3:08 brunson lands power hand

- 2:53 brunson lands lead hook

- Clinch ensues: Brunson lands a few shots, silva lands a shoulder strike and a punch.

- Silva gets another shoulder strike in another clinch, hook attempt

- Brunson inside leg kick

- Silva leg kick

- Silva lands a stiff jab


Rd 3

- Brunson leads more often

- Brunson lands leg kick

- Brunson lands a weak rear hand (at 4:56 silva rolls with the punch)

- Silva lands stiff jab 2 times

- Pretty on par blocking kicks, punches and evading shots.

- Brunson lands about 3 or 4 weak to solid punches

- Around 2:16 brunson lands about 2-3 shots

- SIlva gets into full guard. Silva lands 2 elbow solid, 1 reverse elbow to the top of the head, Brunson lands 4-5 pitter patter punches

(edit: completely forgot to include takedowns).

It’s honestly a hard fight to score, and could have gone either way depending on how you want to interpret the scoring criteria in detail. I'm leaning towards Brunson on this one, but you can easily argue for Silva too. I'm not expert on the judging though. I'm just looking at the technique and strategy involved.
 

strikingthoughts

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Dec 1, 2015
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That's exactly my take on what happened on the ground. Watching live I had Brunson rd1, Silva rd2, and Silva rd3, due to being slightly ahead before the takedown and landing the better shots on the ground. I'll rewatch it either today or tomorrow.
okay cool. One day if you ever get around to watching it again, I'd like to know your thoughts on why you gave rd 2 and 3 to Silva.
 

KWingJitsu

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Nov 15, 2015
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I just finished watching the Silva vs. Brunson fight. Had to rewind and slow things down just to make sure certain shots did indeed land. I didn’t take into account if shots were blocked, evaded and such.


Silva was the superior when landing counters consistently, but his counters didn’t happen too often or produce meaningful impact. Brunson didn’t consistently land going on the lead but the few times he did, he would land some solid power shots worthy of note. Most notable thing to take into account was that Brunson was definitely winning the clinch exchanges. What I saw was that he wasn’t consistent on the feet, but would actually catch up tremendously in the clinch. I wrote notes on all 3 rounds. Here’s what I observed from round one.


Round 1


Silva

· Silva lands about 2-3 counters (normal-level shots)

· Silva leads and manages to land punches to the head (in about 3 different sequences)

· He manages to have control of this rhythm form the most part


Brunson

· Brunson enters the clinch on about 3 different occasions and manages to catch up in that small window of time in terms of how many strikes he manages to lands. We’re talking about 5-7 seconds of shots landing within that small time frame.

· He lands a cross (solid shot), into a takedown attempt.

· Brunson lands about 3 leg kicks


Then silva gets into guard very briefly where judges consider it an equal position anyways. So no one gets any favor there.


Here’s where things get thrown off about the first round. While Silva seemingly had control over a longer span of time, he landed a smaller volume. Brunson manage to catch up on his strikes landed exponentially just in the clinch exchanges alone. But considering he spent around 18 seconds or so in the clinch, that’s only about 6% of the time in round 1. So now you have one guy who’s spacing out his shots over a longer span, versus a guy who lands a lot in a very short window of time. Brunson’s shots did seem to have more visible impact, and he had a bit more volume in smaller amount of time. Brunson had more leg kicks landing but then again, Judges may not hold that as a high precedence over shots that land to the head.



Here’s a few notable things that caught my eye through the fight (mainly things that land cleanly)

Rd 2

- Brunson landing with leg kicks

- 3:39 silva lands a solid punch counter to the leg kick

- 3:08 brunson lands power hand

- 2:53 brunson lands lead hook

- Clinch ensues: Brunson lands a few shots, silva lands a shoulder strike and a punch.

- Silva gets another shoulder strike in another clinch, hook attempt

- Brunson inside leg kick

- Silva leg kick

- Silva lands a stiff jab


Rd 3

- Brunson leads more often

- Brunson lands leg kick

- Brunson lands a weak rear hand (at 4:56 silva rolls with the punch)

- Silva lands stiff jab 2 times

- Pretty on par blocking kicks, punches and evading shots.

- Brunson lands about 3 or 4 weak to solid punches

- Around 2:16 brunson lands about 2-3 shots

- SIlva gets into full guard. Silva lands 2 elbow solid, 1 reverse elbow to the top of the head, Brunson lands 4-5 pitter patter punches

(edit: completely forgot to include takedowns).

It’s honestly a hard fight to score, and could have gone either way depending on how you want to interpret the scoring criteria in detail. I'm leaning towards Brunson on this one, but you can easily argue for Silva too. I'm not expert on the judging though. I'm just looking at the technique and strategy involved.
I love this.
Thanks for taking the time. MMA judging is a pet peeve of mine, and I normally try to judge rounds and enjoy the fights. This was difficult to score for me too and I wasn't too sure when the 3rd round began. I thought Brunson may have edged round one and Silva edged round 2. I thought Silva was winning round 3 - till the takedown. But since takedowns don't score 'points' any more (only damage) I figured the kidney kicks and elbows form the bottom did more 'damage' than the few shots Brunson landed from the top, which should push the round to Silva.
But even then I still wasn't sure and I remember saying so.
I think the new judging is better overall for MMA, but takes some getting used to (ignoring takedowns & who's "on top" unless takedowns lead to damage).
Looking forward to more of your posts.
 

strikingthoughts

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Dec 1, 2015
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I love this.
Thanks for taking the time. MMA judging is a pet peeve of mine, and I normally try to judge rounds and enjoy the fights. This was difficult to score for me too and I wasn't too sure when the 3rd round began. I thought Brunson may have edged round one and Silva edged round 2. I thought Silva was winning round 3 - till the takedown. But since takedowns don't score 'points' any more (only damage) I figured the kidney kicks and elbows form the bottom did more 'damage' than the few shots Brunson landed from the top, which should push the round to Silva.
But even then I still wasn't sure and I remember saying so.
I think the new judging is better overall for MMA, but takes some getting used to (ignoring takedowns & who's "on top" unless takedowns lead to damage).
Looking forward to more of your posts.
Interesting. I didn't catch that part of the new scoring criteria about takedowns.

I revisited round 2 to take a closer look and noticed a few things that needed to be corrected. Overall, here's what I saw being scored in round two (gif examples included).

i'm just going to color the moments going green (low impact or significance), yellow (normal impact), red (significant impact)

Silva Scores
  • Silva lands a stiff jab
  • Silva leg kick
  • Silva gets another shoulder strike in another clinch, hook attempt
  • Silva lands elbow in the clinch
  • Possible lead hook that lands to the top of the head (not a significant shot but can be counted or not depending on how you see it)

Brunson Scores
  • Brunson landing with the inside leg kick
  • @ 3:08 brunson lands power hand (However, Silva does roll with it to reduce the impact)
  • @ 2:53 brunson lands lead hook
  • Brunson lands small shots in the clinch
Silva and Brunson moments where scoring is about even and other controversial sequences
  • They both eat a jab
  • Brunson takes Silva down, but doesn't produce anything meaningful with it as Silva gets back up

  • Questionable Sequence. Brunson throws a leg kick, Silva tries to counter with a lead hook. I had to rewatch this a few times but it appears that Brunson lifted his guard in time to block the shot. I originally thought Silva had landed this clean.
  • I want to bring up the topic of strikes landed. I normal count shots that are clean and meaningful. However statistics count strikes landed even if it's on the guard or shoulder. Granted blocking shots can still hurt. If that's the case, and they give favor even to shots land, I'd have to go back and evaluate the value of shots that these guys threw, even though their opponent's successful blocked or parried them. Silva did have many moments like these:
  • And then you have moments like these where you're unsure if the shots landed because of the bad camera angle. You can see if Brunson is guarding. One could argue to score it for Silva under for forcing the fight offensively and landing on the guard.

I was on the same boat as you for round 2, but after re-evaluating just now, I'm even more unsure. It could still go to Silva. After seeing this, are your thoughts the same about this round?
 
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KWingJitsu

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Nov 15, 2015
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Interesting. I didn't catch that part of the new scoring criteria about takedowns.

I revisited round 2 to take a closer look and noticed a few things that needed to be corrected. Overall, here's what I saw being scored in round two (gif examples included).

i'm just going to color the moments going green (low impact or significance), yellow (normal impact), red (significant impact)

Silva Scores
  • Silva lands a stiff jab
  • Silva leg kick
  • Silva gets another shoulder strike in another clinch, hook attempt
  • Silva lands elbow in the clinch
  • Possible lead hook that lands to the top of the head (not a significant shot but can be counted or not depending on how you see it)

Brunson Scores
  • Brunson landing with the inside leg kick
  • @ 3:08 brunson lands power hand (However, Silva does roll with it to reduce the impact)
  • @ 2:53 brunson lands lead hook
  • Brunson lands small shots in the clinch
Silva and Brunson moments where scoring is about even and other controversial sequences
  • They both eat a jab
  • Brunson takes Silva down, but doesn't produce anything meaningful with it as Silva gets back up

  • Questionable Sequence. Brunson throws a leg kick, Silva tries to counter with a lead hook. I had to rewatch this a few times but it appears that Brunson lifted his guard in time to block the shot. I originally thought Silva had landed this clean.
  • I want to bring up the topic of strikes landed. I normal count shots that are clean and meaningful. However statistics count strikes landed even if it's on the guard or shoulder. Granted blocking shots can still hurt. If that's the case, and they give favor even to shots land, I'd have to go back and evaluate the value of shots that these guys threw, even though their opponent's successful blocked or parried them. Silva did have many moments like these:
  • And then you have moments like these where you're unsure if the shots landed because of the bad camera angle. You can see if Brunson is guarding. One could argue to score it for Silva under for forcing the fight offensively and landing on the guard.

I was on the same boat as you for round 2, but after re-evaluating just now, I'm even more unsure. It could still go to Silva. After seeing this, are your thoughts the same about this round?
Wow. Your post makes it look like an even more fun fight than it seemed.
Other than that 3:08 hook, seems like Brunson's strikes are not really as 'clear'? as Silva's.
I think that shoulder strike was more 'impactful' than you scored it plus it had a short right hook land right after.
Also check out the new rules:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgudcUzW88I
 

strikingthoughts

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Dec 1, 2015
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Wow. Your post makes it look like an even more fun fight than it seemed.
Other than that 3:08 hook, seems like Brunson's strikes are not really as 'clear'? as Silva's.
I think that shoulder strike was more 'impactful' than you scored it plus it had a short right hook land right after.
Also check out the new rules:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgudcUzW88I
Definitely watched the video before watching Silva vs Brunson as you suggested. This fight was easy to post like this because there was a lot of inactivity. I just finished watching Andrade vs Hill, and holy crap, that had a tremendous amount of action by comparison (good fight).

It does appear at times that Brunson's shots don't look at clear, but than again, part of that is Silva's fault. Silva has a tendency to simply move his head away from strikes, making it hard to distinguish if he got hit, or if he's rolling with the shot. I personally think he should re-think his habit of doing this because it makes it hard in the judges eyes to distinguish what he's doing and can potentially count against him.

I thought the shoulder strike was 'impactful' too, but I wasn't sure if I should put it as high value since judges hold punches over shoulder strikes.
 

Zeph

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Jan 22, 2015
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RD 1 clearly Brunson, I don't think this round is up for debate, by anyone.

RD2
Brunson lands a bodyjab, not massively impactful 4:47

Silva lands a partial left hook to brunsons nothing leg kick 3:39

Brunson lands a nice right hand, best shot of the round so far, he's slightly ahead, 3:07

Silva lands a partially blocked left hook around the guard, brunson still slightly ahead, 3:03

Silva lands a front kick, replied by a short right hook from brunson, brunson still slightly ahead 2:56- 2:54

Silva Lands partial spinning back fist and nice kick to the body 2:50, Silva slightly ahead

Brunson lands a takedown, Silva back to his feet within 10 seconds, no scoring achieved and 10 seconds control time isn't valuable, Silva slightly ahead 2:36

Brunson lands a couple short shots in the clinch, silva replies with a nice elbow 1:46, Silva slightly ahead

Silva partially lands a right hook in the clinch 1:10 silva slightly ahead

Silva lands a hard leg kick 0:41, silva couple strikes ahead.

Silva lands a jab to brunson's eye as he comes in, visably effects brunson, he thinks he got poked 0:38, silva ahead

Silva lands a nice bodykick 0:27 silva comfortably ahead

Brunson lands an ok inside leg kick, little more power than some of the previous non scoring taps 0:19 Silva ahead

Silva lands a snapping jab, 0:17 Silva comfortably ahead

Brunson lands a couple of short shots in the clinch, not massively impactful no clock on screen but must be around 0:10 silva ahead

Silva lands a right hook behind the ear of brunson 0:03 silva comfortably ahead

19-19

RD3

Brunson lands an inside leg kick 4:58, not a massively powerful one, inbetween tap and power strike, brunson slightly ahead

Brunson lands a lefthand following up after the first comes up just short, 4:56 Brunson couple strikes ahead

Silva lands a counter right hook, 4:50 brunson slightly ahead

Silva lands a hard knee to the body 4:32 Silva ahead

Silva and brunson exchange right hooks after brunson misses with the rest of a flurry 4:26 Silva ahead

Silva and brunson exchange front kicks, silva's was better 4:19 Silva ahead

Silva lands a short knee to the head after a failed takedown attempt 4:12 Silva comfortably ahead

Brunson lands a couple of shots in the clinch 3:43 silva ahead

Brunson exchanges a bodyjab to silva's front kick to the body, tough to tell Silva's efficiency as the ref moves across screen, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that it lands here, as he hasn't missed one this fight, and they are close enough for it to land 3:39 Silva ahead

Partial right hook, followed by a nice jab from Silva, 3:33 Silva comfortably ahead

exchange jabs, silva's better snaps brunson's head back 3:19 Silva comfortably ahead

Brunson lands a nice leg kick, 3:07 Silva ahead

Brunson lands an ok jab, followed by a nice left hand, 3:04 silva a couple strikes ahead

Silva lands a counter left hook as Brunson lunges for a jab 3:01 Silva ahead

Brunson lands a nice knee, followed by a left hand 2:57, Silva slightly ahead

Silva lands a counter right hook, and brunson ends the exchange 2:55 Silva a couple strikes ahead

Silva lands a nice leaping hook to the body 2:52 Silva ahead

Silva lands a front kick to the body 2:50 Silva ahead

Brunson lands a nice left hook 2:43 Silva a couple strikes ahead

Silva lands a body kick 2:37 Silva ahead

Brunson lands a few short uppercuts, a couple nice ones, but eats a hard elbow and even harder knee to the body, Brunson decides to exit the clinch immediately after eating that knee, he wants no more of that, silva edges the exchange 2:30 Silva comfortably ahead

Brunson lands a body jab 2:27 Silva still comfortably ahead

Silva lands front kick, not much on it, 2:18 Silva still comfortably ahead

Silva lands a right hand over the top 2:14 Silva clearly ahead

Brunson lands short left, 2:12 Silva still clearly ahead

Brunson lands a tapping inside leg kick 2:02 Silva comfortably ahead

Silva lands a tornado kick to the thigh/junk, not called an illegal blow, scoring shot 2:00 Silva clearly ahead

Brunson lands a nice leg kick, 1:49 Silva comfortably ahead

exchange jabs, brunson's is better 1:47 Silva ahead

Silva lands a left hook 1:39 Silva comfortably ahead

Brunson lands a takedown 1:33 Silva still comfortably ahead

Brunson lands a few body shots, not a lot on them, but add up to 4-5 1:22 Silva ahead

Brunson lands a few more shots on the ground, again not a lot on them 1:08 Silva ahead

Silva lands a short elbow, brunson a few more pitter patter shots 1:01 Silva ahead

0:43 left on the clock brunson hasn't postured up, hasn't looked to pass guard, hasn't landed any real telling ground and pound so far, now silva's holding on. Silva ahead

A couple shots to the body with a bit of force, but still not much from Bruson. All of his head strikes are being dodged 0:25 Silva a couple strikes ahead

Silva lands a hard elbow to the top of Brunson's head 0:20 Silva ahead

Silva lands a glancing elbow 0:17 Silva ahead

Silva lands another good elbow 0:16 Silva ahead

Both throw some pitter patter until the round ends.


29-28 Silva. I agree with the judges, except the 30-27 that score is lunacy, Brunson clearly takes round 1.
 
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Zeph

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Jan 22, 2015
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strikingthoughts @strikingthoughts that post above is scoring with going back to slow-mo strikes that I wasn't sure about and its even clearer for Silva than i scored live. If Brunson had postured up and really went for it on the ground he could have easily won. Instead he dug his head into Silva's chest and couldn't see to land his strikes. Meaning he missed anything he threw with power, only landed a few body shots with anything on them, and Silva's elbows were the best strikes landed on the ground

edit: also no sound
 
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strikingthoughts

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Dec 1, 2015
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RD 1 clearly Brunson, I don't think this round is up for debate, by anyone.

RD2
Brunson lands a bodyjab, not massively impactful 4:47

Silva lands a partial left hook to brunsons nothing leg kick 3:39

Brunson lands a nice right hand, best shot of the round so far, he's slightly ahead, 3:07

Silva lands a partially blocked left hook around the guard, brunson still slightly ahead, 3:03

Silva lands a front kick, replied by a short right hook from brunson, brunson still slightly ahead 2:56- 2:54

Silva Lands partial spinning back fist and nice kick to the body 2:50, Silva slightly ahead

Brunson lands a takedown, Silva back to his feet within 10 seconds, no scoring achieved and 10 seconds control time isn't valuable, Silva slightly ahead 2:36

Brunson lands a couple short shots in the clinch, silva replies with a nice elbow 1:46, Silva slightly ahead

Silva partially lands a right hook in the clinch 1:10 silva slightly ahead

Silva lands a hard leg kick 0:41, silva couple strikes ahead.

Silva lands a jab to brunson's eye as he comes in, visably effects brunson, he thinks he got poked 0:38, silva ahead

Silva lands a nice bodykick 0:27 silva comfortably ahead

Brunson lands an ok inside leg kick, little more power than some of the previous non scoring taps 0:19 Silva ahead

Silva lands a snapping jab, 0:17 Silva comfortably ahead

Brunson lands a couple of short shots in the clinch, not massively impactful no clock on screen but must be around 0:10 silva ahead

Silva lands a right hook behind the ear of brunson 0:03 silva comfortably ahead

19-19

RD3

Brunson lands an inside leg kick 4:58, not a massively powerful one, inbetween tap and power strike, brunson slightly ahead

Brunson lands a lefthand following up after the first comes up just short, 4:56 Brunson couple strikes ahead

Silva lands a counter right hook, 4:50 brunson slightly ahead

Silva lands a hard knee to the body 4:32 Silva ahead

Silva and brunson exchange right hooks after brunson misses with the rest of a flurry 4:26 Silva ahead

Silva and brunson exchange front kicks, silva's was better 4:19 Silva ahead

Silva lands a short knee to the head after a failed takedown attempt 4:12 Silva comfortably ahead

Brunson lands a couple of shots in the clinch 3:43 silva ahead

Brunson exchanges a bodyjab to silva's front kick to the body, tough to tell Silva's efficiency as the ref moves across screen, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that it lands here, as he hasn't missed one this fight, and they are close enough for it to land 3:39 Silva ahead

Partial right hook, followed by a nice jab from Silva, 3:33 Silva comfortably ahead

exchange jabs, silva's better snaps brunson's head back 3:19 Silva comfortably ahead

Brunson lands a nice leg kick, 3:07 Silva ahead

Brunson lands an ok jab, followed by a nice left hand, 3:04 silva a couple strikes ahead

Silva lands a counter left hook as Brunson lunges for a jab 3:01 Silva ahead

Brunson lands a nice knee, followed by a left hand 2:57, Silva slightly ahead

Silva lands a counter right hook, and brunson ends the exchange 2:55 Silva a couple strikes ahead

Silva lands a nice leaping hook to the body 2:52 Silva ahead

Silva lands a front kick to the body 2:50 Silva ahead

Brunson lands a nice left hook 2:43 Silva a couple strikes ahead

Silva lands a body kick 2:37 Silva ahead

Brunson lands a few short uppercuts, a couple nice ones, but eats a hard elbow and even harder knee to the body, Brunson decides to exit the clinch immediately after eating that knee, he wants no more of that, silva edges the exchange 2:30 Silva comfortably ahead

Brunson lands a body jab 2:27 Silva still comfortably ahead

Silva lands front kick, not much on it, 2:18 Silva still comfortably ahead

Silva lands a right hand over the top 2:14 Silva clearly ahead

Brunson lands short left, 2:12 Silva still clearly ahead

Brunson lands a tapping inside leg kick 2:02 Silva comfortably ahead

Silva lands a tornado kick to the thigh/junk, not called an illegal blow, scoring shot 2:00 Silva clearly ahead

Brunson lands a nice leg kick, 1:49 Silva comfortably ahead

exchange jabs, brunson's is better 1:47 Silva ahead

Silva lands a left hook 1:39 Silva comfortably ahead

Brunson lands a takedown 1:33 Silva still comfortably ahead

Brunson lands a few body shots, not a lot on them, but add up to 4-5 1:22 Silva ahead

Brunson lands a few more shots on the ground, again not a lot on them 1:08 Silva ahead

Silva lands a short elbow, brunson a few more pitter patter shots 1:01 Silva ahead

0:43 left on the clock brunson hasn't postured up, hasn't looked to pass guard, hasn't landed any real telling ground and pound so far, now silva's holding on. Silva ahead

A couple shots to the body with a bit of force, but still not much from Bruson. All of his head strikes are being dodged 0:25 Silva a couple strikes ahead

Silva lands a hard elbow to the top of Brunson's head 0:20 Silva ahead

Silva lands a glancing elbow 0:17 Silva ahead

Silva lands another good elbow 0:16 Silva ahead

Both throw some pitter patter until the round ends.


29-28 Silva. I agree with the judges, except the 30-27 that score is lunacy, Brunson clearly takes round 1.
Thanks for looking through it. Seems like you and I are the only ones crazy enough to do this.

I was actually looking at the fight by things that land clean, but when you look at it like you mentioned, by including shots that are landing on the guard, it changes a lot. Silva did have plenty of moments working offense in this category (strikes that land on the guard). Those moments are important because they tell a story about how Silva controls the rhythm of the fight. There are a lot of questionable sequences where the camera angle isn't so clear, but even if we threw those moments out, Silva may likely still be ahead in effective offense.

It's kind of weird for me to watch the fight from a judging perspective. I see the fight differently when I look at it as an art versus a point system. It's harder to for me to judge by using the scoring criteria.

Just looking over both or notes and recalling how they chain everything together, it appears that Silva was the superior in his ability to counter strike consistently, had a solid dynamic rhythm of consistently leading. Interesting thing is when we look over our notes, there was very little to no mention of Brunson's ability to counter Silva. He had nice clinch exchanges and a few good moments of leading, but from a technical perspective, I favor Silva in his ability to dictate a bit more of his craft. When it came to scoring, it was hard to determine, but after your input, I'm leaning more towards Silva.

I haven't seen anyone any post to refute on Brunson's behalf, but i'm open to different perspectives on the matter.
 

strikingthoughts

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strikingthoughts @strikingthoughts that post above is scoring with going back to slow-mo strikes that I wasn't sure about and its even clearer for Silva than i scored live. If Brunson had postured up and really went for it on the ground he could have easily have won. Instead he dug his head into Silva's chest and couldn't see to land his strikes. Meaning he missed anything he threw with power, only landed a few body shots with anything on them, and Silva's elbows were the best strikes landed on the ground

edit: also no sound
you and I are on the same page about that, but I'm wondering why others see it differently regarding that last round ground sequence.
 

Zeph

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Thanks for looking through it. Seems like you and I are the only ones crazy enough to do this.

I was actually looking at the fight by things that land clean, but when you look at it like you mentioned, by including shots that are landing on the guard, it changes a lot. Silva did have plenty of moments working offense in this category (strikes that land on the guard). Those moments are important because they tell a story about how Silva controls the rhythm of the fight. There are a lot of questionable sequences where the camera angle isn't so clear, but even if we threw those moments out, Silva may likely still be ahead in effective offense.

It's kind of weird for me to watch the fight from a judging perspective. I see the fight differently when I look at it as an art versus a point system. It's harder to for me to judge by using the scoring criteria.

Just looking over both or notes and recalling how they chain everything together, it appears that Silva was the superior in his ability to counter strike consistently, had a solid dynamic rhythm of consistently leading. Interesting thing is when we look over our notes, there was very little to no mention of Brunson's ability to counter Silva. He had nice clinch exchanges and a few good moments of leading, but from a technical perspective, I favor Silva in his ability to dictate a bit more of his craft. When it came to scoring, it was hard to determine, but after your input, I'm leaning more towards Silva.

I haven't seen anyone any post to refute on Brunson's behalf, but i'm open to different perspectives on the matter.
You're definitely right you have to watch the fight differently when scoring than when looking at technique. I honestly didn't notice that Brunson wasn't countering much, because I was concentrating on what landed and it's impact, than who's throwing what types of shots, specifically, and when.

Silva's ability to lead has continued to improve since the Diaz fight, before that fight he didn't really lead at all. Now he has a nice jab he can break out, which he can use to build off of, although things like that leaping hook will get punished against better strikers. Robert Whitacker, for instance, would have said thank you very much, and landed a strong counter.
 

Zeph

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you and I are on the same page about that, but I'm wondering why others see it differently regarding that last round ground sequence.
I think it has to do with not knowing the judging criteria, which I don't fault them for - I blame the UFC for that and their inability to articulate it to the fans - and still overrating takedowns, which aren't slams, and top control. Brunson was ontop so, of course, he was winning.
 

strikingthoughts

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that kick lands, the hand goes to parry but gets there afterwards, see the kick pushes brunson further back into the fence.
Brunson was already moving back while taking the kick and took the it while being on just one leg, so it's definitely possible to get pushed back like that on one leg, even while blocking. It looked like it hit the bottom elbow area because the frame is so unclear, but Looking at it from a technique perspective, his arm a bit too high to protect the rib area. I'd be happy giving Silva that shot. Either way, I think it's fair to score it for Silva. The hit does technically land on something.
 

Zeph

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Brunson was already moving back while taking the kick and took the it while being on just one leg, so it's definitely possible to get pushed back like that on one leg, even while blocking. It looked like it hit the bottom elbow area because the frame is so unclear, but Looking at it from a technique perspective, his arm a bit too high to protect the rib area. I'd be happy giving Silva that shot. Either way, I think it's fair to score it for Silva. The hit does technically land on something.
I thought it landed with the foot to the midsection, personally. Sliva will often land with his instep, or turn his toes up to use the ball of the foot, which I would assume are from his TKD days.
 

Zeph

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An overhead view might give a better look at that kick if anyone has fight pass.