Trump supporters: What will be a successful Presidency?

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delightone

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Jan 14, 2015
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I current pay 5000 a year in insurance premiums and my insurance company will not cover anything until I pay the first 12000 out of pocket.
So your premium is about 417 a month, is that for you alone or are you wife and kids covered.
We pay about 150 per person so 300 for me and my wife, and my 2 kids are covered free untill 18 years old under my insurance.
we have a decutible of 380 per person so that amounts to 760 a year.

Alot of shit isn't covered like it used to be, but basic treament and specialized care is if you pay an extended coverage free.
 

delightone

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Jan 14, 2015
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That is what most of my family thinbks as well, but would this be implemented in the Netherlands, they would fucking torch The Hague... people would torch Rutten and smoke him like Mexican ditch weed.

Yeah but we were spoiled with "het ziekenfonds" a premium of 30 gulden a month and any thing you can think of was covered.
Things changed alot these past years, it's still pretty good healthcare but way more expensive than it was in the past.
You left 15 years ago thats about the time it went all down the shitter over here, with that stupid ass euro valuta.

We have elections in march, i do not have clue who to vote for, they are pretty much all spineless money hungry idiots, the whole lot of them, and we've got our own oneliner racist idiot running for prime minister who is leading the polls at the moment, so we will have our own shitshow of an election very soon.
 

delightone

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Jan 14, 2015
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Beause well-earning people have to pay more for the insurance they get...
Those horrible low-earning people get it for free.
Is there a big difference in what the middle class pays and what low incomers pay?

In the netherlands everybody pays the same amount more or less, or you have to opt for extended coverage for things like a higher coverage of your dental plan and etc. etc.
But the people who earn less than i believe 30K a year get a monthly amount to cover some of the premiums.
So lets say your monthly premium is 120 and you have a year income of 22K they give 50 a month to help with the premium.
Still pretty stupid why not just pay the insurance company directly because the poorest among us spend that 50 and are fucked when they need to pay the premium.
So in short better earning people pay more over here too, but to be honest i understand the why, but it doesn't mean i like it, on that note healthcare should be available to everyone
 

Splinty

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Dec 31, 2014
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Well isn't a $3,000 deductible better than having no healthcare, i rather owe $3,000 than lets say a $80,000
By the way, i'm not trying to attack, i'm trying to understand.
Yes, but we already had that if you wanted it. Now it costs more for most people and way less for a small high risk portion.

The aca added a lot of requirements that standardized plans and required population level coverage of various things, whether you wanted them out not, or will use them or not.

People that wanted catastrophic plans used to be able to get them for very cheap and piecemeal together something that let them decide front or backbend cost in a more flexible way, often for as low as 50 bucks a month.

Now it's more comprehensive but you must pay for that increase requirement. and to make the monthly payments lower, the deductible had to keep going up.

The end result is that you won't go bankrupt, but you won't really have insurance coverage until you test that extreme.

I, and many others, would argue you could have accomplished this same act with 1> high risk pools 2> no preexisting conditions 3> individual mandate

Then we added way more to that without patient care in design.
Much of the ACA has nothing to do with coverage but rather incentivizes geographic monopolies of private healthcare systems in hopes of gaining economies of scale (notice all your nearby hospitals buying up all the clinic's and imaging? They'll start their own insurance company next)...but that doesn't seem to be working as the system feeds itself.
Costs savings so far aren't in any increased efficiency or health prevention. It's in lack of utilization. If we truly believe things cost more on the backend, then this will eventually blow up and the costs flat lining will be a temporary blip due to consumer behavior.


And I never think you are attacking. I appreciate the discussion.
 

Splinty

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Dec 31, 2014
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Beause well-earning people have to pay more for the insurance they get...
Those horrible low-earning people get it for free.

I really do wish you'd quit framing the conversation like this.

Some people in life are compassionate and educated AND disagree with you.


EDIT - removed 'every' to not expand responsibilty
 

KWingJitsu

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Nov 15, 2015
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I really do wish you'd quit framing every conversation like this.

Some people in life are compassionate and educated AND disagree with you.
And I really do wish every time you disagree with me, you stop using the word "every" to generalize what I'm saying. No'om sayin'?
 

Splinty

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Dec 31, 2014
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And I really do wish every time you disagree with me, you stop using the word "every" to generalize what I'm saying. No'om sayin'?
It's not about disagreeing. You framed this.

We probably share the same goals but with different ways to do it.

I don't see anyone in here hating poor people, but you just show up to lob rhetoric that discounts everyone in here that talks about Obamacare being bad as simply that.

There's nothing constructive to it and it indirectly targets everyone that just posted they would like to change Obamacare.
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
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I haven't yet touched the interaction between the federal government and the state and Medicaid expansion.

I specifically talking about patients that have Federal exchange program insurance policies.
To my knowledge those individuals plans are not impacted whether the state chooses to expand Medicaid or not. They're simply the standardized plans and may or may not qualify for a subsidy for the premium.
Well, this is an interesting point. Because you mentioned poor people paying $3000 deductibles, I assumed you were talking low income, but they may be over even an expanded threshhold. I know Texas is somewhat restrictive on the way it doles out Medicaid, limiting it to people with children and capping it at less than 19% of the poverty line whereas ACA extended medicaid to 138% of the poverty line. That means more people are in the marketplace pool where they'd have crappy plans with things like high deductibles or premiums.

I can guess the state didn't want to takr the risks that they'd have to shoulder higher costs by extending Medicaid to single individuals and increasing the threshold, but in that case, the state seems to merit a bit more of the blame than Obamacare. It seems like it's largely an ideological position.

Here's a study on the effects of that coverage gap in Texas. But even forgetting all that it seems the deductibles are universally a problem, especially if you're decently outside the poverty line, but still struggling as this article elaborates on. I know you can get a subsidy in the form of a tax credit, but that's little consolation when you're stuck with an immediate bill.

It seems repeal is only going to magnify these matket concerns, though some in Trump's camp believe the solution is more intetstate competition. To me, single payer seems more and more the only realistic alternative.
 

sparkuri

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I'd like to see some arrests for treason on all sides, showing the people fairness would likely turn the tides.
I wanna see some semblance of Constitutional integrity, police departments that physically answer to their community.
Offices across the nation should all close, congress should be on commission to keep 'em on their toes.
It's absolutely mandatory to audit the Fed, and we'd all be much happier with the IRS dead.
It'd be nice if we bring home troops and build our defences,
we should close all the loops and tighten the entrances.
If we're gonna build fences we should mend some first, we ought to arrest both Clintons, believe me, they're the worst.
The bureau of land management should turn in all their arms, no peoples' land agency should ever cause harm.
The pharmaceutical industry should come under review, gmo's and additives oughtta disappear too.
Term limits federally should quickly be imposed, keeping old farts in office is sure to get us hosed.
Over-regulating businesses has gotten totally ridiculous, and the tax code should be legible not insanely meticulous.
Property taxes everywhere should be completely abolished, it's wrong to pay indefinitely with the threat of being demolished.
The prison and justice system needs to be re-wrote, most past offenders shouldn't lose their right to vote.
Self defense laws should be forever wrote in stone, the right to protect yourself is yours and yours alone.
Psychological courses; police should regularly attend, and the drug war in America needs to come to a fucking end.
 

Splinty

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Dec 31, 2014
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I can guess the state didn't want to takr the risks that they'd have to shoulder higher costs by extending Medicaid to single individuals and increasing the threshold, but in that case, the state seems to merit a bit more of the blame than Obamacare. It seems like it's largely an ideological position.
Agreed on a lot of it is trust in Federal government. The big challenge I think was the tapering off and then trying to predict what the Federal government would do in a 5 years.
Texas has a neutral federal tax in/tax out position at current. And moving that seems to rustle feathers.


But even forgetting all that it seems the deductibles are universally a problem, especially if you're decently outside the poverty line, but still struggling as this article elaborates on. I know you can get a subsidy in the form of a tax credit, but that's little consolation when you're stuck with an immediate bill.
This is what I was trying to describe. It's all 30-50 year old blue collar workers. Not enough money for this to be no big deal, not old enough for medicare.

I don't know what 'poor' will be defined as, but they are "working poor" in my mind. They might not meet the classification. But they don't live well (old house, old car, old clothes) and they have no disposable income.
 

KWingJitsu

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Nov 15, 2015
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It's not about disagreeing. You framed this.

We probably share the same goals but with different ways to do it.

I don't see anyone in here hating poor people, but you just show up to lob rhetoric that discounts everyone in here that talks about Obamacare being bad as simply that.


There's nothing constructive to it and it indirectly targets everyone that just posted they would like to change Obamacare.
And this is exactly what I'm saying. You keep adding shit to what I actually said, that I didn't actually say.|

Who said I was talking about anyone here? Where did you get that from?
 

Splinty

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Dec 31, 2014
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And this is exactly what I'm saying. You keep adding shit to what I actually said, that I didn't actually say.|

Who said I was talking about anyone here? Where did you get that from?
That's thing about rhetoric, hard to tell when its just cast into the thread.

Fair enough to your objections. I'll just accept your post at face value.

As an outsider Obamacare seems like a good thing, can someone eleborate on why it's a bad thing.
Beause well-earning people have to pay more for the insurance they get...
Those horrible low-earning people get it for free.
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
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Dec 31, 2014
44,116
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The bureau of land management should turn in all their arms, no peoples' land agency should ever cause harm.
I never realized how angry people were about this.
I didn't pay attention in the 1990's but did you follow the Staircase National Monument controversy ??

Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument - Wikipedia

As a nod to certain environmental groups, entire towns were decimated over night.
People I know that lived there said that if Bill Clinton had showed up, someone would have killed him in broad daylight and no one else would have said a word. The wiki doesn't seem to capture the anger and passion of the topic.

People there still hate the BLM because of this.


I'd like to see some arrests for treason on all sides, showing the people fairness would likely turn the tides.
I wanna see some semblance of Constitutional integrity, police departments that physically answer to their community.
Offices across the nation should all close, congress should be on commission to keep 'em on their toes.
It's absolutely mandatory to audit the Fed, and we'd all be much happier with the IRS dead.
It'd be nice if we bring home troops and build our defences,
we should close all the loops and tighten the entrances.
If we're gonna build fences we should mend some first, we ought to arrest both Clintons, believe me, they're the worst.
The bureau of land management should turn in all their arms, no peoples' land agency should ever cause harm.
The pharmaceutical industry should come under review, gmo's and additives oughtta disappear too.
Term limits federally should quickly be imposed, keeping old farts in office is sure to get us hosed.
Over-regulating businesses has gotten totally ridiculous, and the tax code should be legible not insanely meticulous.
Property taxes everywhere should be completely abolished, it's wrong to pay indefinitely with the threat of being demolished.
The prison and justice system needs to be re-wrote, most past offenders shouldn't lose their right to vote.
Self defense laws should be forever wrote in stone, the right to protect yourself is yours and yours alone.
Psychological courses; police should regularly attend, and the drug war in America needs to come to a fucking end.
Nice Rhyme ;)
 

KWingJitsu

ยาเม็ดสีแดงหรือสีฟ้ายา?
Nov 15, 2015
10,311
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That's thing about rhetoric, hard to tell when its just cast into the thread.

Fair enough to your objections. I'll just accept your post at face value.
Thank you.
And for the record, ALL my posts are always at face value. (Well, except my 'humorous' ones. But I refuse to put a smiley face in front of them because it cheapens the jokes imo).
I often get misquoted or misinterpreted. Maybe it's my posting style. :confused:
But its the way I speak in real life too: I only mean exactly what I say, nothing more, nothing less.
Reminds me of that one time I asked Mark Coleman a question and he wanted to ground and pound me because he completely misunderstood what I asked him. So Kevin Randleman (R.I.P) saved my ass.
But I digress.....:) <--- Oh shit... smilie alert.
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
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Dec 31, 2014
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I often get misquoted or misinterpreted.
My fault for piling on that then. Will try not to have confirmation bias.
Reminds me of that one time I asked Mark Coleman a question and he wanted to ground and pound me because he completely misunderstood what I asked him. So Kevin Randleman (R.I.P) saved my ass.
lmao...Unless Pitbull9 @Pitbull3744 were ever to teach me his bro secrets, I suspect you'd be fine off just getting someone like Kaila Curran to defend against me
 

Teen Gohan

TMMAC Top Team
Oct 19, 2015
1,464
2,267
Obamacare was a money-grab for the insurance companies. It was mandated that all citizens purchase a private insurance plan or face a monetary fine. There were some good provisions, like mandatory coverage of pre-existing conditions, and subsidized coverage for the least wealthy, but it's been a financial disaster for everybody else.

Premiums skyrocketed. And even if you had the coverage for relatively cheap, you'd be stuck with a ridiculous deductible to cover. There's nothing affordable about the Affordable Care Act.
This. I know single mothers with insane deductibles. On top of that, they are very limited as to which doctors they can go.
 

Kingtony87

Batman
Feb 2, 2016
6,515
8,902
So your premium is about 417 a month, is that for you alone or are you wife and kids covered.
We pay about 150 per person so 300 for me and my wife, and my 2 kids are covered free untill 18 years old under my insurance.
we have a decutible of 380 per person so that amounts to 760 a year.

Alot of shit isn't covered like it used to be, but basic treament and specialized care is if you pay an extended coverage free.
My wife and I. Our daughter is covered subsidized under child health plus. I pay 30 a month for her and it covers pretty much everything. For my wife and I though the insurance doesn't pay anything until we cover the 12k premium. Which is insane.
 

Yossarian

TMMAC Addict
Oct 25, 2015
13,489
19,127
Yeah but we were spoiled with "het ziekenfonds" a premium of 30 gulden a month and any thing you can think of was covered.
Things changed alot these past years, it's still pretty good healthcare but way more expensive than it was in the past.
You left 15 years ago thats about the time it went all down the shitter over here, with that stupid ass euro valuta.

We have elections in march, i do not have clue who to vote for, they are pretty much all spineless money hungry idiots, the whole lot of them, and we've got our own oneliner racist idiot running for prime minister who is leading the polls at the moment, so we will have our own shitshow of an election very soon.
You are correct sir. I left right before the Euro, before the shithouse caught fire, well except for France and Germany of course.

It is most likely a populist movement is highly possible, also in the Netherlands with Wilders. Even more now, than ever. Many of the simmering will be combined, a scapegoat will be found, and it may steer a country to nationalist collectivism. Not flat out Hitler, but the loss of tradition will be used to sway people over. This is of course nothing new, in fact centuries old where democracy was practiced. Change is needed, but hopefully not as drastic as some wish for.
 

Splinty

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Dec 31, 2014
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Updates? How do you guys feel it's going?

It went to shit when the GOP went after Obamacare and after 8 years stilllllllll had no plans waiting in the wings lol. Like the biggest screw up possible.

No infrastructure project, even though the Dems are ready to do one. That's ridiculous. We are so overdue on this it's ridiculous.

Ivanka is doing a childcare tour right now and gop and dems have given nods to the topic, but no movement .

We are moving out of Syria....and into Saudi lol


I give it a B for Biden.
 

sparkuri

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Jan 16, 2015
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I give Trump a A+ under these conditions.

No one else could "Trump it" so HARD