White fires back at Wand

[girlandcoconut]

Don't like it, don't sign it.

Also, if everyone hates the UFC so much and feels so passionately about all the ways they are so horrible, why are we here? Why are we watching their fights then?

If you don't like the game, don't play.

There's plenty of shit in the world that isn't fair. And yep, haven't seen the contract, none of us has so we're all just doing our own form of speculation and opinion sharing. Is what it is.

 

[Wild]

Don't like it, don't sign it.

Also, if everyone hates the UFC so much and feels so passionately about all the ways they are so horrible, why are we here? Why are we watching their fights then?

If you don't like the game, don't play.

There's plenty of shit in the world that isn't fair. And yep, haven't seen the contract, none of us has so we're all just doing our own form of speculation and opinion sharing. Is what it is.

I love the sport. Love the fighters that put their bodies & minds thru hell 300+ days/yr for our entertainment. I am of the opinion that they deserve better. I fell like Zuffa could conduct business with more integrity at times.

 

[sparkuri]

Don't like it, don't sign it.

Also, if everyone hates the UFC so much and feels so passionately about all the ways they are so horrible, why are we here? Why are we watching their fights then?

If you don't like the game, don't play.

There's plenty of shit in the world that isn't fair. And yep, haven't seen the contract, none of us has so we're all just doing our own form of speculation and opinion sharing. Is what it is.

This is the MMA Community, not UFC.com.

Very few hate the UFC. Most have been here and helped cultivate it's success from the VERY beginning.
But with that cultivation came a future hoped for that has not been fulfilled under Zuffa.
Many, including myself, would have gladly watched fighter success in any promotion, and would've waited out while SEG was acquired in a less shady way.
Personally, I've watched every promotion.
They've got nothing to do with it unless the fighters are being disrespected or treated unfairly, and they are.

I don't care what Dana White has to say about anything, unless it's a public apology to the hundreds of legends he's badmouthed.
Dana White is not MMA. Nor has he stepped foot in a fight.

As far as "don't like it, don't sign it", if that were the case, and everyone fully understood every contract they signed, we'd all be driving Datsuns.
There aren't enough lawyers in the world to relay the stipulations in every contract signed.
Have you ever read the affordable health care act?
Of course not, it's 10,000 pages long.

For an elite fighter not to sign with the UFC is a testament to their monopolization of the sport, and strongarm tactics employed by them; The same ones used to acquire the UFC in the first place.

It's about the fights/fighters, not the name.

 

[ThatOneDude]

We are here because we like mma. Like it or not, they have the majority of the talent, so we watch because we want to see the best facing each other. That being said plenty of people watch Bellator, OneFC, and other combat sports like Glory. Don't get it twisted, just because we watch doesn't mean we agree with the UFC's business tactics, this is the MMA community, not the UFC community.

 

[Wild]

My favorite combat sport orgs. Based on entertainment value for my dollar, the people that run them, the way I know them to conduct business, etc.

1) ONE (love the global rule set, pure entertainment from the word go, Stephen Langdown & Ben Askren said they are treated great and Victor Cui is awesome).
2) Glory (they NEVER put on a disappointing event, they promote the fighters over the brand, etc)
3) Bellator (Huge fan of Scott Coker, love the production of their events)
4) UFC
5) Lion Fights

 

[girlandcoconut]

I love the sport. Love the fighters that put their bodies & minds thru hell 300+ days/yr for our entertainment. I am of the opinion that they deserve better. I fell like Zuffa could conduct business with more integrity at times.

100% agree.

 

[girlandcoconut]

We watch = we support it whether we agree with it or not. That was my point. But most of my points were completely missed because a couple people decided to bash my opinion vs considering it.

 

[ThatOneDude]

I don't think anyone was bashing, just disagreeing with you.

 

[ChaosOverkill]

But supporting despite wanting better is true for governments, schools, any of the litany of Oligarchs that are parent companies of brands most people can't even fully trace the manufacturer/creator of properly.

It's at the point now where unless you breathe, filter seawater, fish and live on a barge in in international waters, you are supporting a list of things that you may or may not want to support in the end with taxes, use of the roads etc.

The UFC amassed the power to give people an ultimatum "Support us or forgo the majority of top level MMA" it still doesn't make their decisions and mistakes forgivable or excusable and the same goes for people that want Dana to be seen as a saint because he gives to charity. Donald Trump gives MORE than he does to charity and SHOULD relative to his own wealth, however Trump is still a flawed person who does ridiculous shit he should be called out for.

We're in a vice and have been for decades with what we consume and what we let become of infrastructure around us. It's shitty hypocrisy I agree but all you can do is say your piece as objectively as you can on the subject, mine is that ZUFFA were once doing great, they have a wild west situation in terms of contractual situations and it covers up wrong directions they take with regards to marketing, PED's, transparency and media associations.

Dana is a generous man, but he and the Fertitas professionally are petrified of legit media de-constructing their errors. It's a "on one hand x, on the other y" situation and people think you have to conflate and create Z out of them. You don't.

 

[D241]

I think our girl coconut could benefit by knowing more history on ufc fighter contracts and some of ufc's strong arm tactics of the past, and it's our duty to educate, however there are many here more excited to do that than myself.

I just wanted to reiterate girlandcoconut's statement-what I feel SO many anti Zuffa people fail to realize, is UFC is our entertainment. I watched UFC before I watched Pride, and I liked both and eventually preferred Pride, but now that UFC is the lone big dog, I want them to succeed. We can point out their flaws but people tend to do that far more than remember things like....

Where UFC has come from from their Semiphore Entertainment Group days,
Expanding their talent-(think back to the old days)
Fight for the Troops
Fighters insurance

UFC is guilty of strong arm tactics and leveraging their position, but they're not 100% the devil guys.

 

[ChaosOverkill]

I think our girl coconut could benefit by knowing more history on ufc fighter contracts and some of ufc's strong arm tactics of the past, and it's our duty to educate, however there are many here more excited to do that than myself.

I just wanted to reiterate girlandcoconut's statement-what I feel SO many anti Zuffa people fail to realize, is UFC is our entertainment. I watched UFC before I watched Pride, and I liked both and eventually preferred Pride, but now that UFC is the lone big dog, I want them to succeed. We can point out their flaws but people tend to do that far more than remember things like....

Where UFC has come from from their Semiphore Entertainment Group days,
Expanding their talent-(think back to the old days)
Fight for the Troops
Fighters insurance

UFC is guilty of strong arm tactics and leveraging their position, but they're not 100% the devil guys.

I don't accuse them of being the devil, but I certainly think their attitude and policy implementation in the face of challenges and an evolving litany of issues leaves a lot to be desired. For example, you cannot have a press-conference outlining your personal outrage and strategy for PED's and happily take an event and then plan another event in Texas a month later while no one calling themselves "media" asks you a single question about the absurdity of that. You end up looking like what the Fertitas are constantly accused of being, which is palm greasing Cosa Nostra stereotypes intimidating dissenters.

From choosing a non-Wada lab in China to having a hand in a Brazillian commission partnership that may be fixing fights, their business practices and responses to challenges leaves A LOT to be desired and most of the people I know who watched this sport at one point have stopped and moved on for far less than any of this and that also includes the GSP situation and others relative to it.

But otherwise you make a fine and fair point.

 

[ChaosOverkill]

If they owe Texas events somehow, even in the face of Texas not giving a shit about PED's, it's a problem.

If they think nothing will come of this issue and will keep giving Texas events because they can, it's a problem.

Texas claims no one has brought up testing at their "medical hearings", I find that ridiculous and beyond fathomable.


Bellator doesn't escape this either with their selective use of Casinos on Native land. The two companies are not even trying to hide a two tiered system going on, and yesterday's ref situation doesn't fill me with confidence that these are intended to be solved at any point. I imagine that if Native Casinos cold generate the gate revenues that sanctioned venues in large cities do, both would ONLY put on events there.

 

[ChaosOverkill]

Short of a System that tests EVERY TITLE FIGHT and EVERY TOP 5 CONTENDER fight at the very least in every place they take them makes me see their fancy press conferences as smoke screen distraction scenario to "throw the dogs a bigger bone" when they need to.

Either test all the important fighters or don't test and make a massively convincing argument and campaign to show why referencing other sports. Pick one, do it, find a way or watch more and more people give up and find the next big trend in sports and it will be the fighters who pay in the end because ZUFFA will cash out when the decline becomes sharp enough.

If you cough on a sick patient (PED Testing legitimacy) enough times he will get something you can't fix in time.

 

[Ryann Von Doom]

The common statement of "don't sign the contract" is bullshit. Wait till a fighters association hits... zuffa is fucked.

 

[ThatOneDude]

Hopefully one does get started as a result of the lawsuits.

 

[The Tomahawk Murderer]

I know Wand kind of brought this on himself, but I don't see why dipping out on a test should be treated any more harshly than failing it. Call it an obvious failure, give him the usual punishment for popping and move on. I guess it's worse to just say "I know I won't pass this test so fuck it", than to just piss in the cup and let them find out for themselves because then they can pretend they didn't find out until after the fight and only punish the guy once they've already made bank off of him.

I also think it's bullshit for the UFC to keep him locked up under contract. Sure he signed it, but they decided to take it upon themselves to not let Wand try to fight ANYWHERE because it would make their ball licking sessions with NSAC officials kind of awkward. If they're going to hold his contract hostage they should at least let him try his luck with other commissions/countries. Instead they take it upon themselves to basically sacrifice Wand's ability to ever work in his life long profession again to keep the NSAC happy so that in the future they can return the favors by doing shit like making sure a big Anderson Silva fight happens no matter what.



I also find find it kind of stupid, considering this ;


Making Sense of the Antitrust Lawsuit Facing the UFC

Section 2, the section under which the UFC is being sued, addresses single-organization conduct that harms competition. It protects consumers from organizations engaging in certain conduct to create or maintain a monopoly position. By maintaining an illegal monopoly, an organization can charge higher prices, spend less money on research and development and supply less of a product.

While defending themselves from multiple lawsuits accusing them of going to great lengths to keep any and all competition from succeeding, they hold a fairly popular, but past his prime and no longer top ten ranked fighter hostage and unable to ever work in his field again just so nobody else can boost their ratings with him.

 

[D241]

Educate me more on the emphasis on Texas?

 

[ThatOneDude]

They refuse to do any testing outside of fight night and their reason was "it's never been brought up" or something like that

 

[ChaosOverkill]

Educate me more on the emphasis on Texas?

Reporter trying to add to the PED conversation and write a story he probably though would be ordinary asked the Commissioner of the Texas State Commission about Random testing for UFC 185. The Commissioner said they never have done any for any reason and never will until it is "Brought up" in front of their medical board suggesting no one ever had, and to my knowledge no one has asked anyone the UFC anything about it since their PED Press Conference and since then they immediately announced another event in Texas in October during UFC 185.

So the priorities here seem... screwed up to say the least. There has been random testing in some for since December 2013, to have booked a Texas PPV a year and three months later and it has "never been brought up" seems retarded. It is also part of the reason that RDA's performance tripped an additional flag with certain people that granted, doesn't absolve anyone else on the card including Pettis but if there are any PED users on that card, any manager worth his pay would inform them that being on a card in Texas means they could cycle their brains out and interestingly, Overeem was on that card too.

I mean, who the hell is going to "Bring it up" if it isn't the UFC? And if they have before and Texas won't do something then giving them additional events and claiming "We love Texas and want to do Cowboy Stadium" screams "We are just paying lip service to PED testing because Anderson caused a shitstorm" and not an actual policy, and personally my belief in Zuffa as capable of doing more than try and fool people right now is very very low and this REALLY didn't help.

Texas regulatory body won't give random, out-of-competition tests to UFC 185 fighters - MMA Fighting

 

[sa80teur]

Whether you like Wand or not (and as a fighter, I do), he had a large hand in creating this whole situation. If he hadn't been cheating, he would seen out his contract ages ago and would have been free to go where he liked.

No sympathy for him here.

I also absolutely subscribe to the view that the UFC is and acts as a monopoly. WBA, IBF, WBO, WBC etc in boxing, and fighters earn rankings in each of them toward unifying titles. In MMA, you can only fight for the UFC??

 

[La Paix]

Wand didn't do himself any favors but if the UFC has no use for him I feel they should severe ties and let him try his luck else where. I'm not totally up to speed on UFC contracts but given the business tactics that ZUFFA has displayed I'll usually side with the fighters as a default until further evidence comes through.

I don't think anybody here is beating up on @girlandcoconut but are just disagreeing due to a long history of BS being witnessed. If she or any other members or lurkers have time you need to read a thread @Galanis created on the UG. Sorry to send traffic elsewhere but its one of the best articles written on that site IMO, here's the link.

The biggest star the UFC ever made (pic) - MMA Forum

I was going to hunt down then cut and paste a bunch of examples as to why are just don't trust or support many things that ZUFFA management do regarding treatment of fighters but I did so in this thread months back so itll be easier for all.

 

[Shy Guy]

It's a tough situation for both parties.

If the UFC lets him go, they are allowing a competitor to take a commodity that they currently control.

On the side of Wand, a man has to earn a living and he can't as it stands right now.

I hope the UFC does let him go at some point this year. It's not right to hold a man under contract when he can't compete and earn a living.

 

[La Paix]

It's a tough situation for both parties.

If the UFC lets him go, they are allowing a competitor to take a commodity that they currently control.

On the side of Wand, a man has to earn a living and he can't as it stands right now.

I hope the UFC does let him go at some point this year. It's not right to hold a man under contract when he can't compete and earn a living.

Didn't Dana blast Bjorn over similar tactics with guys like Eddie Alverez.

 

[Ministry of Silly Walks]

Hopefully one does get started as a result of the lawsuits.

wasn't jamie varner going to try and get something going?

 

[Morpheushasleftthebuilding]

Don't like it, don't sign it.

Also, if everyone hates the UFC so much and feels so passionately about all the ways they are so horrible, why are we here? Why are we watching their fights then?

If you don't like the game, don't play.

There's plenty of shit in the world that isn't fair. And yep, haven't seen the contract, none of us has so we're all just doing our own form of speculation and opinion sharing. Is what it is.

If the UFC choses to hold Wand under contract, give him a job/work, but don't punish him again by preventing him to make money. the punishment by the NCAS was not of this earth.
Not a single athlete has been suspended for life for ducking a test.