IMG/GIF Why Wonderboy Will Lose to Woodley & Woodley Will Too...

[KataKing]

BTW @KataKing...I hope you plan to do a post-fight analysis after Saturday's fight.

I can. I'm also very interested in what the MMA-based community thinks, how they respond.

Like Duke Roufus, I pretty much know the ins & outs of Stephen Thompson's sport karate style. People in my dojo use it, though not to the extent we typically see on YT. We also have the other typical karateka who then spars with kickboxing instead of karate, or some conglomeration thereof.

The difference between me & the Roufuses of the kickboxing world... is that I know pretty much know how to defeat their sport kickboxing. Karate proper is designed to do so. It's really a mental discipline contest, which kickboxing doesn't focus on. That's where Karin has Duke.

The big, looming unanswered question here is how Wonderboy will fare against the stiffer competitive talents that Woodley brings. Stephen makes plain in the video that he is not underestimating Tyron. I hope that's true... fear it's not.

 

[KataKing]

BTW @KataKing
...I hope you plan to do a post-fight analysis after Saturday's fight.

@SC MMA MD as a follow on, I some time ago, reviewed the RDA loss to Alvarez. I attributed the lost to the Cordeiro method of MMA training, which is rated among the MMA best. RDA's Muay Thai is technically very sound, to the extent of my limited knowledge. He suffers mainly, however, from a lack of mental discipline.

RDA is very aggressive, and applies that aggression well, ends up mowing down a ton of people,,, the last being the destruction of Cowboy Cerrone. Against a skill, determined opponent who is not intimidated by strong aggression, lately Ferguson,? RDA loses his way and his striking becomes undisciplined... and which then leads to escalating counter vulnerability. The fight goes downhill from there as the opponent then begins to seize the offensive.

RDA's Muay Thai has some technical failings... by traditional karate standards... but IMO he's really a great MMA striker overall.

 

[KataKing]

ROBIN BLACK'S LATEST WOODLEY / WONDERBOY BREAKDOWN.

I always look for Robin's breakdowns. He captures very well the MMA essence of many competitors, including Wonderboy. I firmly believe his actual Octagon experience is a big plus in his analysis & calls. See the link below for his latest on our topic here. This was just put up on YT 1 day ago.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuL6NMo7bXA

Robin & John Ramdeem hit on several important tipping points for this match-up. Largely consistent with those in my Thread. They both hold some bias for MMA standards when viewing traditional martial arts... but after all, they are MMA commentators.

I also really appreciate Robin giving the nod to Woodley's efforts. I think Woodley is an excellent, if not elite MMA competitor. I think we all should respect his accomplishments... and I'm continually impressed with his training regimen... and the smart's to seek out Duke Roufus on the striking. That's a huge gain for Woodley, how he put his layoff to good & positive use. As a traditional karateka,,, other-style competitors like Tyron Woodley encourage & or force us to face stiff, formidable testing of our skills.

So please review Robin's video, he makes a strong case for why this fight is a UFC 205 Headliner.

 

[SC MMA MD]

@KataKing I love the fact that at 01:00 with the election coming to a crescendo, you are posting breakdown videos. I can not wait for 205

 

[KataKing]

@KataKing I love the fact that at 01:00 with the election coming to a crescendo, you are posting breakdown videos. I can not wait for 205

\
@SC MMA MD Life goes on.................................

Now an earlier reply suggested a slew of MMA tactics to defeat Wonderboy. So @ POST #21, I came back with two overall tactical thrusts, along with 3 specific tactics. Here's Roufus-inspired Tactic #4. THE PIVOT OUT.

Seems to be the Muay Thai fighter... the nemesis of karate in MMA.

When Wonderboy shoots his straight-on "blitz," look for Woodley to pivot out of Stephen's classic forward momentum. The pivot out here works so well against the more typical striker,,,, cause what,? his choice of footwork, which frankly to me doesn't look all that bad by MMA. Not how we see Wonderboy move though.

This is yet another reason why this fight is a classic for testing kickboxing tactics against karate-like tactics.

Karate has an answer for everything, in principle... Fight by principles... not with technique. As Robin Black & Co-host John R. express, can MMA adopt the principles of these more dynamic competitors like Wonderboy..? my answer; "... remains to be seen."

 

[The Sound of Violence]

Am I the only one who is getting a serious James Hydrick vibe from OP?

 

[KataKing]

WELL, WE'RE GETTING DOWN THE WIRE... and

I see some good commentary & some not. I want to put up another karate kumite tournament video, to help reinforce the circumstances that Woodley ain't out of the "Woods;" Roufusport trio of coaches notwithstanding. Robin Black centers on this situation, the crux of the issue between the two styles... in his recent breakdown (see Post # 28) just above.
<iframe width="854" height="480" src="2015 AAU Karate Nationals Kumite Highlight - YouTube" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
What do you see (beside an ego reflection in your keyboard - you know who I mean)?

Here's 3 observations I have...

1. Kicking & punching ain't enough.
2. Make a miscalculation & you're done.
3. Who said point fighters can't knock you down (&out)? Or toss you around?

Carry on....

 

[Rambo John J]

Woodley and Romero win in KO fashion

 

[KataKing]

JACK SLACK HAS COME OUT WITH A TACTICAL DEPICTION OF WOODLEY VS. WONDERBOY

Link below:
The Tactical Guide to Jedrzejczyk vs. Kowalkiewicz and Woodley vs. Thompson | FIGHTLAND
He leads in with a longer piece on JJ vs. KK

Here's a couple of notable points, IMO. People in MMA should pay attention to Slack. There's a general dearth of analysis by competitors & coaches alike, for one. Incidently, the 1st example Jack posts for Woodley has Koschek as the opponent... someone guilty of zero analysis & he pays big against Woodley.


----------------- TYRON WOODLEY --------------------

1. Woodley's Stutter Step + Big Right. If Wonderboy gets careless and stands in front of Tyron... WB could be caught. Interestingly enough, there's a later gif of WB doing just that with Hendricks against the fence... just what Slack describes.

2. Woodley Feinting High Going Low for TD. Someone commented one 1 of my threads... expect this. Maybe that someone was a Slack-ite. Anyhow, that resonated with me. Jack Slack points out how Woodely used such successfully against another versatile striker, Condit. Like MacDonald's imanari rolls, I think Jack & Co. have pointed out a distinct possibility / probability. However, in a similar striking move, Hendricks got whacked GOOD for doing so.

3. Woodley's Full-On Charge. Again, Jack points out how Tyron's explosive forward movement has worked in the past. Sure seems likely Woodley will try this sooner rather than later, IMO.

------------------------------ STEPHEN "WONDERBOY" THOMPSON -----------------------------

4. Thompson's Kicking Uniqueness. Slack makes an observation regarding how WB kicks, in contrast to the typical MMA striker. He keys on the principle of "Chambering," which I have espoused heavily on in my Karate threads. Jack provides insight to the advantages in Wonderboy's approach. It's a read.

5. Thompson's "JAB Shutdown." Jack references the Rory McDonald fight. I agree. However, the experience in that fight was Rory was very reserved & cautious. Tyron Woodley is going to approach with much more aggression. I do want to comment that the MMA-Striker Coach convention of use of the JAB tactically is handled very well by competent karate. In Woodley's favor... the kickboxing element of WB's style is / has been susceptible to the jab... and Slack points this out.

6. Thompson's Vulnerability to Striking. Slack and 1 or 2 others have spotted this. Rapid MMA is another. WB gets too clever & overconfident in his base approach. He lets his discipline drop & POW, gets nailed. With Woodley, there may be no recovery, unlike the Ellenberger illustration Slack provides.

Overall, very nice tactical sketch from Slack. We haven't heard or seen much from what WB is planning to do different against the athletic power of Woodley. Most of the change, adaptation appears out of the Woodley / Roufusport camp. Could be a surprise by WB, or a disappointment. I'm anxiously waiting.

 

[KataKing]

BEEN TROLLING AROUND, READING & LISTENING TO LAST-MINUTE COMMENTARY RE PREDICTED OUTCOME.

Some of this is not bad. Here's my reflections on some.

1. Wonderboy will win because of his mastery of distance. I am so sick of hearing this. Wonderboy's MMA-striking style displays what nearly all sport karate fighters do. This isn't some magic, martial elixar. Distance alone will net you nothing... and many a Machida decison loss has come about from Machida's reticence of keeping distance. Moreover, see 2.

2. Woodley's explosiveness will catch Wonderboy. I think this has merit. A site called Bloody Elbow has a good fanpost speaking in part about this dynamic.

3. Wonderboy's boxing ain't that good. Wonderboy is not a boxer folks. The author is correct about the sloppiness in Wonderboy's striking, which is why I hate Wonderboy's workout training. OTOH, refer to my karate kumite vids. Karate isn't fooling around for 15-25 minutes.

4. Wonderboy's MMA skills have gotten so much better since the Matt Brown fight. ON the ground game... I would think so. I hope we will see a test of this via Woodley. OTOH, I am so sick of hearing about Wonderboy's purple or whatever belt in BJJ, trains with Chris Weidman, etc. Stephen Thompson fights nearly all the time on his feet with essentially the same striking that won him 57-0 in kickboxing. That excludes the Daniels episode.

I think since Brown, Wonderboy has improved his conditioning prep light years. Not that he's some new, evolved manga. When Wonderboy is disciplined, he's really tough to stand up to. When he's sloppy and overconfident in OW stuff will carry the day... he gets caught.

5. Wonderboy's Head Movement, Open Chin a plus for Woodley. This is again one of the silliest things I keep hearing. Again refer to karate kumite vids. Head movement may or may not save you. Against top karateka... your head is hit before you can move it. Dah.

Instead we have Robbie Lawler with all his bounce-y / toe-y, jerky-random head movement... in & out move all around footwork... so clever....Woodley BOOOOM. The boxing-type striking defense does work... but really does it? Remember, we're talking Tyron here.

Tyron losing depends on Stephen being @ peak proficiency on all three fundamental legs of his karate-kickboxing style, especially #3 IMO (still waiting for TMMA posters on this one). Just as the pundits say,,, this one ain't a for sure @ all.

 

[KataKing]

I MAY SOUND SO PRO-WOODLEY... I WANT TO PRESENT MY WONDERBOY HOPES...

IN answering all those talents & tactics I've spelled out for Woodley... and other MMA analysts are too... I want to specifically re-address Woodley's explosive overhand power-right. A la Machida / Bader.

Notice, ever so importantly & instead of head movement, etc. ad nauseum.... Machida's extended left hand forms an intercepting guard... just as I've lectured in several of my karate tradition threads. I, I assume everyone, is waiting to see how Wonderboy counters Woodley's power-right gambit. Aldo lost on his power-left gambit versus McG. Bader lost on his bum rush come in winging right-roundhouse punch... 1st time Bader reportedly KO'ed.

The popularity of the reverse punch in competition / sport karate is there for a reason. A sound reason. But the reverse punch isn't what should define one's competition karate style. I would luv (martial art wise) to see Mr. Power-Hitter Woodley get dropped like a Bader-stone. OTOH, WB makes a miscalculation & he's likely hurt & compromised for the rest of the fight... if like Lawler... or MacDonald, the rest of one's MMA career....

A high-risk, high-reward fight if there ever was one.

 

[KataKing]

OK PRELIMS START SOON, HERE'S ANOTHER LAST THOUGHT...

The view, the assumption that karate is defensive. Shotokan karate is counter-punching. See the gif below. Would be a shocker if Stephen Thompson does the unthinkable karate thing & goes on the immediate ffensive. Pulls a Reverse Woodely-Lawler. Who would see this coming?

I believe that's no other than Lyoto Machida on the offensive. What we should have seen all along.

November 14, 2016 Edit: Precisely what Wonderboy said he should've done.

 

[KataKing]

Well, I pretty much called it. I a genius @ guessing too.

In short, the OW type stuff that Coach-maven DAD & Wonderboy do is not serious training. It's kickboxing, for the 57-0 pro-am arena. We're in the pros with Woodley, who did a great, though not fantastic job. +1 for Woodley, sycophantic haters.

Sonia & Karin are looking pretty good right know versus Upstate Karate.

Also, nods to Rapid MMA & Jack Slack for identifying Wonderboy's hit-tabilty in their breakdown articles... and to others I've missed.

 

[La Paix]

@KataKing

 

[KataKing]

@Kelly

http://dailygarlic.com/userImages/milana-vayntrub-50582.gif

 

[KataKing]

dup

 

[KataKing]

It may seem I'm harsh on Wonderboy's performance against Tyron Woodley. But he really was right on the brink of losing the fight 0n both grappling & striking both... astounding & contrary to the popularized calls.

I've not spent the time to closely review the scorecards... I do think it should have been scored for Woodley. How Woodley could not get straight 10-8s in Round 4 escapes me. Instead of a 10-9, I can more readily see one 10-7.

Nonetheless, the score was close by UFC-MMA Rules. The pregnant question within all the extensive posts I have been clogging up the community with IS, how is Wonderboy going to handle Woodley on the next go-around. It's not just a competitive question; it's whether the Championship Belt will be attainable by Wonderboy.

We've seen this 'topping out' on the MMA-karate style with Lyoto Machida. There is this inability among the sport karate fighters we see in the UFC to surmount the skills of the elite level MMA-Style competitors. I, of course, have the solution (traditional) for the MMA karate stylists... they have to be willing & able to return to their traditional karate roots.

Wonderboy, IMO, has not fully realized that karate is not about fighting... it's about a philosophy that takes one martially to a plane above what MMA competitors understand & train. We've seen a recent glimpse of that in the Conor McG smash of Alvarez. I'm skeptical that Wonderboy realizes what he has to do....