People Who Talk About MMA Decline are Ridiculous

[Bobby Lupo]

The sport has never been better.

The UFC has a dominant HW champion who takes care of business in the cage and didn't need cynical matchmaking and ethnic pandering to get there.

Anderson ran the Matrix over a shallow MW division (apart from Hendo and Vitor), but how would he do against: Romero, Whittaker, Jacare, Rockhold, Gastulem? Not so great, considering that his 2x conqueror Chris Weidman isn't really in the picture anymore.

LW/FW are fucking stacked. A far cry from the days when BJ Penn would beat up on Some-Guy-From-TUF-Who-Dropped-a-Division

Also, PPV isn't really dying: UFC 222 with Cyborg in a squash did about as many sales as Couture-Liddell 2, and 5 of the top 10 all time UFC PPV happened in 2015 and 2016

They could use better hype shows. This Hollywood agency sucks at promotion. They should show the BJ Penn-GSP 2 hype show to the marketing department.

 

[member 3289]

True but you know the guys at WME are desperate for Conor's return.

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

Lupo, nice to see you here, did not know you post here. The PPV's are shit quality, you think it was just the last one. Since the GSP fight, in I think November up until now, every PPV has been a piece of shit. We are like on 5 straight or more shit ppvs. The Khabib Tony is one decent, but then even the next 2 after that are shit.

The rankings mean nothing in terms of title fight, the talent is less, many prime fighters are either in Bellator or fighting in Russia. I agree that some of the weightclasses are stacked, but it means nothing if you don't put together logical title and contender fights homey.

 

[Bobby Lupo]

I'm not convinced that the UFC under Zuffa was terribly concerned about the legitimacy of title fights. Brock was 1-1 in the UFC and got a title fight against a 621-year-old Randy Couture. Dan Hardy got a title shot against GSP. Did anybody in the world believe that Dan Hardy was the second best Welterweight in the world, and a worthy challenger. Andrei Arlovski defended against Paul Buentello and Justin Eilers. WTF kind of nonsense was that?

The UFC is far from perfect, but it always has been more spectacle than sport. This is nothing new. The only new wrinkle has been the advent of the money fight dream.

 

[SensoriaUtopia]

I'm not convinced that the UFC under Zuffa was terribly concerned about the legitimacy of title fights. Brock was 1-1 in the UFC and got a title fight against a 621-year-old Randy Couture. Dan Hardy got a title shot against GSP. Did anybody in the world believe that Dan Hardy was the second best Welterweight in the world, and a worthy challenger. Andrei Arlovski defended against Paul Buentello and Justin Eilers. WTF kind of nonsense was that?

The UFC is far from perfect, but it always has been more spectacle than sport. This is nothing new. The only new wrinkle has been the advent of the money fight dream.

Look what you had to do. You had to pick and choose fights over 15 year span. those fights you listed where from 15 to 5 years ago. WME has doubled that in illogical title fights in literally 18 months.

WME has lowered the quality of UFC< there is no doubt about it. PPV's don't drop by mor than 50% for no reason.

 

[Bobby Lupo]

Look what you had to do. You had to pick and choose fights over 15 year span. those fights you listed where from 15 to 5 years ago. WME has doubled that in illogical title fights in literally 18 months.

WME has lowered the quality of UFC< there is no doubt about it. PPV's don't drop by mor than 50% for no reason.

PPV is an outdated way to consume media. It worked when the average MMA fan was a Gen-Xer with a background watching pro wrestling, but when the generational shift happened, they people who didn't grow up buying 6-8 PPV/yr thought it was crazy to pay $60 for a night of fights. Toys R' US was once the biggest toy retailer in the world, until a new generation found it easier to get what they wanted delivered via Amazon instead of driving to a store and hoping that it was in stock.

Younger fans buy the major events: conor, JBJ, Lesnar, but they'll just check the gifs on reddit and have their Saturday night's free for Tinder dates.

There never was a clear title picture as long as I can remember in the UFC, and I've been watching since the 90s

 

[sparkuri]

Agreed.
MMA is in a great spot, especially for fans and fighters, and THAT'S what counts!

 

[FrankieNYC]

I'm not convinced that the UFC under Zuffa was terribly concerned about the legitimacy of title fights. Brock was 1-1 in the UFC and got a title fight against a 621-year-old Randy Couture. Dan Hardy got a title shot against GSP. Did anybody in the world believe that Dan Hardy was the second best Welterweight in the world, and a worthy challenger. Andrei Arlovski defended against Paul Buentello and Justin Eilers. WTF kind of nonsense was that?

The UFC is far from perfect, but it always has been more spectacle than sport. This is nothing new. The only new wrinkle has been the advent of the money fight dream.

Prize fighting was always this way
Anybody that thinks this is new is not versed on history

 

[Wild]

@Bobby Lupo - I think hardcores are into it as much, or more, than they're ever been. But the recent decline in overall viewership (cable and PPV) sure give the signal that the casuals that followed the sport when Ronda & Brock were fighting, moved on when those two did. What's your thoughts on why the ratings have been so bad Bobby? Bellator's experienced it too.

 

[FrankieNYC]

@Bobby Lupo - I think hardcores are into it as much, or more, than they're ever been. But the recent decline in overall viewership (cable and PPV) sure give the signal that the casuals that followed the sport when Ronda & Brock were fighting, moved on when those two did. What's your thoughts on why the ratings have been so bad Bobby? Bellator's experienced it too.

I think there are less hardcores now & more casuals
A hardcore is someone interested in every card & that number has fell
Casuals pick & choose & have chosen to skip most cards

When a Conor or Brock or Rousey fights, the casuals come out & purchase it with an extra 1m+ buys & 6+ people watching each buy
When Mighty Mouse fights the hardcores buy it & do 125k in buys or lower ratings than a PVZ or Holly fight

 

[member 3289]

I don't see 1 million buys for a UFC ppv in the next 2 years unless it's headlined by Conor.

 

[FrankieNYC]

I don't see 1 million buys for a UFC ppv in the next 2 years unless it's headlined by Conor.

Or Brock
But I agree I don't see another PPV superstar on the horizon

if they cut PPV to 6 per year & stack the cards, it will be interesting to see the buys

But no matter, how UFC distributes content should be very different in Jan 2019

 

[Wild]

I think there are less hardcores now & more casuals
A hardcore is someone interested in every card & that number has fell
Casuals pick & choose & have chosen to skip most cards

When a Conor or Brock or Rousey fights, the casuals come out & purchase it with an extra 1m+ buys & 6+ people watching each buy
When Mighty Mouse fights the hardcores buy it & do 125k in buys or lower ratings than a PVZ or Holly fight

You may have a point. But MM has never been a draw, for various reasons (size, personality, etc). Kind of hard to use his popularity as any sort of metric.

 

[FrankieNYC]

You may have a point. But MM has never been a draw, for various reasons (size, personality, etc). Kind of hard to use his popularity as any sort of metric.

Obviously, but hardcores are who watches the non-draws
His numbers are in the same area as Nunes, Holloway, etc (ultra low end)
Only people buying those are hardcore fans & there are less & less
Even on TV the bar has lowered
Now a hardcore fan does not need to watch every event, but the pool of hardcores is obviously less now than it has been.
Look at social media & forums & see how many "I used to be hardcore MMA fan, but now I'm more casual" post you see.

The biggest issue MMA has is the huge casual base has not turned as many into hardcores as needed to replace the old harcores.

Brock certainly brought new MMA fans & turned some into HC
I don't think RR did. I think a majority of her fans stayed casual

You see a lot of "I watched when Brock came in" comments. Same with TUF
Rarely do you see "I started watching for RR & then was hooked"

 

[Wild]

The biggest issue MMA has is the huge casual base has not turned as many into hardcores as needed to replace the old hardcores.

I think we're both in agreement here. It's a problem that WME needs to figure out how to solve. If I were them, I would try to get some of the Hollywood celebs they represent more involved with UFC events, and get exposure to the product that way.

 

[IschKabibble]

Only because of Bellator, imo.

 

[IschKabibble]

I think we're both in agreement here. It's a problem that WME needs to figure out how to solve. If I were them, I would try to get some of the Hollywood celebs they represent more involved with UFC events, and get exposure to the product that way.

Seems like a no-brainer considering their connections.

 

[FrankieNYC]

I think we're both in agreement here. It's a problem that WME needs to figure out how to solve. If I were them, I would try to get some of the Hollywood celebs they represent more involved with UFC events, and get exposure to the product that way.

It is asinine that they get no social media play from the celebs that bought into UFC
WTF is Kimble & Conan not tweeting about every fight card?
Its not like it takes effort
Also the lack of fighters on those shows is pathetic.
Those were no-brainers IMO & shows how little WME are actually involved in the day to day.
That is why I laugh when I see people blaming Ari for a fight card. Ari couldn't name 98% of the roster I bet lol

They run the business end as far as budgets, etc & obviously do that well. But they are not as involved in the actual MMA aspects of UFC & it sadly shows

 

[X EVil Eddie X]

Agreed.
MMA is in a great spot, especially for fans and fighters, and THAT'S what counts!

I agree. I was discussing this yesterday on my Twitter. Iv been seeing articles and hearing other media say there has been a 30% decrease in the mma community. Iv been following this sport since I started highschool and watching TUF1. Our sports had its ups and downs in the past 10 years but I really feel our sport has been growing and has now gripped some respect in the common communty / pop culture. Just the fact that my mom has rented her own UFC ppv’s since McGregors splash, is just crazy! On XMAS my entire family has sat down the ost two years to watch the free UFC PPV fights. I was just at Bellator here in CT and I saw tons of families flocking the ticket booth excited to watch the fights. When I was a kid my dad brought me to Baseball games and now families are going to local Bellator / UFC events! On the flip side if we are looking st PPV numbers and FS1 numbers it has taken a dip recently. I really believe MMA will continue to grow into main stream culture and water fountain interest at work amongst co workers and such....

 

[Sex Chicken]

What boots should I wear this spring?

 

[ConorMcGregor NutHugger]

What boots should I wear this spring?

 

[jason73]

When i look at twitter people are tweeting about acb m1 bellator rizin etc.its a great time to be a mma fan.there is combat sports happening all over the world and many platforms to stream them on.there is more to the mma world than ufc

 

[FrankieNYC]

 

[ConorMcGregor NutHugger]

Fuck yeah! \M/
Only reason I put that song up there was I bet @Sex Chicken has some smooth legs like some of those old hags. Not that he has legs like an old hag but smooth.

 

[FrankieNYC]

Fuck yeah! \M/
Only reason I put that song up there was I bet @Sex Chicken has some smooth legs like some of those old hags. Not that he has legs like an old hag but smooth.

No idea what your second sentence is about & I am happy with that