General Canadian Politics eh.

MC Gusto said:
Are you just going to leave us hanging.....
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This is a rough explanation so forgive me if it's not eloquent, but bear with me. Right now legislation basically works like a funnel. Most stuff happens at the top and then it tapers down. This ends up being a big problem because you end up with governments elected by large urban centers, which means those urban centers are also determining the legislation that gets written up even though they don't have the most basic understanding of how other people live.

Ie, it's easy for a guy in Toronto to support a party that says bear hunting needs to be outlawed. That guy might have a different opinion if he lived in Sudbury where bears are a valid safety concern in your day to day life. Ultimately that guy in Sudbury knows that his vote makes no difference.

The legislative system should basically be inverted where the federal government is involved in next to nothing in regards to day to day life, the province is a middle man and the bulk of the decisions are made at the local level where the elected employees have better understandings on their constituents needs.
 
ConorMcGregorsBeard said:
This is a rough explanation so forgive me if it's not eloquent, but bear with me. Right now legislation basically works like a funnel. Most stuff happens at the top and then it tapers down. This ends up being a big problem because you end up with governments elected by large urban centers, which means those urban centers are also determining the legislation that gets written up even though they don't have the most basic understanding of how other people live.

Ie, it's easy for a guy in Toronto to support a party that says bear hunting needs to be outlawed. That guy might have a different opinion if he lived in Sudbury where bears are a valid safety concern in your day to day life. Ultimately that guy in Sudbury knows that his vote makes no difference.

The legislative system should basically be inverted where the federal government is involved in next to nothing in regards to day to day life, the province is a middle man and the bulk of the decisions are made at the local level where the elected employees have better understandings on their constituents needs.
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But this happens with our current system as does your concerns about parties 'colluding'.

In BC's last provincial election, as you know an NDP / Green coalition took power. The rural communities which make up 75% of BC based off land mass, not population, claims they are not being represented as they voted for the Liberals. So under our current system, two minority parties colluded and dont represent rural communities.... And yet you dont support a reform or Pro Rep?

Also, on the urban vs rural point, I dont think it holds weight. Population trumps land mass when it comes to voting. Live in a rural community, expect to be less represented as less people live in rural communities. I understand this doesn't encourage industry or populating non urban areas.
 
MC Gusto said:
And yet you dont support a reform or Pro Rep?
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I fully support reform.

MC Gusto said:
Also, on the urban vs rural point, I dont think it holds weight. Population trumps land mass when it comes to voting. Live in a rural community, expect to be less represented as less people live in rural communities. I understand this doesn't encourage industry or populating non urban areas.
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I disagree that people shouldn't receive equal representation because of where they live. When I go to the polls in a federal election my lived experience should not in any way shape or form have what amounts to a disproportionate effect on your day to day life. I could potentially support the idea that those whom don't work or own land shouldn't get to vote at all though.
 
ConorMcGregorsBeard said:
I fully support reform.
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In which ways?

ConorMcGregorsBeard said:
I disagree that people shouldn't receive equal representation because of where they live. When I go to the polls in a federal election my lived experience should not in any way shape or form have what amounts to a disproportionate effect on your day to day life. I could potentially support the idea that those whom don't work or own land shouldn't get to vote at all though.
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Its not that they dont receive equal representation, they do. We all get one vote. Just because there are more urban voters than rural voters, we shouldn't give a rural vote more weight.
 
MC Gusto said:
In which ways?
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I haven't seen one I like yet, but first past the post shafts people who live in smaller cities or rural areas. Shifting the authority of the federal and provincial governments to municipalities would be a good start.

MC Gusto said:
Just because there are more urban voters than rural voters, we shouldn't give a rural vote more weight.
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Even when the issue being voted on more directly effects people in rural areas?
 
ConorMcGregorsBeard said:
I haven't seen one I like yet, but first past the post shafts people who live in smaller cities or rural areas. Shifting the authority of the federal and provincial governments to municipalities would be a good start.
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*Edit, how would that work>

ConorMcGregorsBeard said:
Even when the issue being voted on more directly effects people in rural areas?
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Nope. One person, one vote.
 
ConorMcGregorsBeard said:
This is why the system is broken. People in urban centers insisting they should dictate how others should live.
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That is how a democracy works. Numbers = votes.

You have advocated for rural voters to hold more weight and for the current system in which a small portion of votes can win a majority control of a province... at this rate you will have a small minority of rural voters controlling a province via a majority win by less than the physical majority of voters participating in the vote.

#ProRepIsLit
 
MC Gusto said:
That is how a democracy works. Numbers = votes.

You have advocated for rural voters to hold more weight and for the current system in which a small portion of votes can win a majority control of a province... at this rate you will have a small minority of rural voters controlling a province via a majority win by less than the physical majority of voters participating in the vote.

#ProRepIsLit
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I've advocated for rural voters to have more weight over what happens in their communities. This should be the case for all communities, not just rural.

I hope we're not pretending democracy works.
 
ConorMcGregorsBeard said:
I've advocated for rural voters to have more weight over what happens in their communities. This should be the case for all communities, not just rural.
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So then why are we discussing this in a first past the post vs pro rep discussion?

Wait, I got it, it related back to your comments about the Feds and Prov giving more power to municipalities... but in reality, that wouldn't be part of the prov govt votes, that would be a case by case issue within provinces and their current govt.
 
MC Gusto said:
So then why are we discussing this in a first past the post vs pro rep discussion?
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Personally, I wasn't. I think you're mistakenly under the impression that I think first past the post is good.

MC Gusto said:
Wait, I got it, it related back to your comments about the Feds and Prov giving more power to municipalities... but in reality, that wouldn't be part of the prov govt votes, that would be a case by case issue within provinces and their current govt.
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I'm proposing that federal and provincial governments be stripped down. One size fits all very clearly doesn't work.
 
ConorMcGregorsBeard said:
I'm proposing that federal and provincial governments be stripped down. One size fits all very clearly doesn't work.
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How would that work?

Any examples of a system you have in mind?

Wouldn't giving more power to municipalities continue on the status quo of power in the hands of urban areas?
 
MC Gusto said:
How would that work?
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Many, many fewer federal laws. More autonomy for local governments.

MC Gusto said:
Any examples of a system you have in mind?
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Most of history has been city states. The powers that be decided it wasn't good for business though. The North American Indians were pretty much the last ones and it worked pretty well until the Brits showed up.

MC Gusto said:
Wouldn't giving more power to municipalities continue on the status quo of power in the hands of urban areas?
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No, because you're removing the ability of one municipality to directly effect the policies that apply to another. If you didn't like how things were going in Gustoville, you could pack up and move to Beardville where the laws might be more to your liking.
 
ConorMcGregorsBeard said:
Many, many fewer federal laws. More autonomy for local governments.



Most of history has been city states. The powers that be decided it wasn't good for business though. The North American Indians were pretty much the last ones and it worked pretty well until the Brits showed up.



No, because you're removing the ability of one municipality to directly effect the policies that apply to another. If you didn't like how things were going in Gustoville, you could pack up and move to Beardville where the laws might be more to your liking.
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So based off what your are proposing, you would need to know hundreds if not thousands of legal codes of you traveled across Canada? Because as we all know, ignorance of the law is no excuse. I feel this isnt realistic without having to greatly increase the govt.
 
ConorMcGregorsBeard said:
That's already the case.
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I disagree. The Canadian Criminal Code is a Federal legislative document. Some laws very between provinces but the overall structure of those laws are based of Federal legislation. At this point the difference between inter provincial laws include such things as legal age limits and driving infractions.... much less than if you were giving more power to rural voters and municipalities to decide criminal code legislation.
 
MC Gusto said:
I disagree. The Canadian Criminal Code is a Federal legislative document. Some laws very between provinces but the overall structure of those laws are based of Federal legislation. At this point the difference between inter provincial laws include such things as legal age limits and driving infractions.... much less than if you were giving more power to rural voters and municipalities to decide criminal code legislation.
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You make that statement as if we need most of these laws.
 
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