General Corona virus updates

[Deleted member 1]

My assumption is that the drug is only being used against critically ill patience.

It's not. I've posted the studies on plaquenil (name brand easier to type for me) throughout this thread.
It has the least evidence in the critically ill and almost assuredly does not work there as there is no evidence it works and at least one study and a lot of case observations that it didn't. So early data, but trend is no.

The primary evidence for the drug is only in very small non symptom based studies in medical surgical floor level patients. They note decreased viral load, but did not study improvement in symptoms. This is very important. Virus goes down by day 6? ok. Do 95% of your patients have resolved symptoms by day 6 anyways? Then the drug would be unlikely to help 95% of those patients even if viral load is lower in them. Simply we don't know because the studies don't show that. They weren't patient focused studies.

There is one Chinese study that did an ok job of trying to focus on symptoms and I summarized it earlier in the thread. Their patients got better about a day sooner but most importantly no patients went from mid level sickness to ICU level. 2 patients out of 30 or so did go to the ICU that were not treated. That's an incomplete study but in patients that you wont harm, the drug is reasonable to use in medical surgical floor patients.


With that said, Trump is absolutely 100% in the wrong to keep promoting this drug or any drug as a figurehead. If he wants to help promote it, authorize funding to build a bunch of the generic to fix the shortage he's created and so physicians can use the drug and run trials ASAP. Use the power of the federal government to centralize a reporting database for doctors to treat a patient with demographic info and outcomes. That's it. Shut up and just help us study the damn thing instead of impeding that by distorting its usage and supply chains.

Trump does not have the moral or technical high ground to sit here continue to call for an uproven drug's use without the extensive context that comes with a 12 year training career that is being a physician. There is a litany of things I can write about the insane harm this is causing, as well as the total distortion of highly limited data politicizing my and other doctors work in trying to save patient lives.

Just as you thought they were using this on ICU patients, or the stuff in the news conflating Trump's "right to try" law with the FDA's "limted emergency authorization of hydroxychloroquine" patients believe something has changed. Some think Trump authorized me and others to use this drug (he didn't, I always could) for COVID19. That's directly due to this politicking. What has happened is that he has not enabled studies to move any faster. He has created a shortage. States are forced to limit outpatient usage of this drug for COVID19 to preserve supply chains for inpatient usage, etc. I am now less flexible in the use of this drug due to these factors and my patients that need these drugs to stay out of the hospital in the first place are running out of them due to shortages.

 

[Deleted member 1]

Trump is pushing this as the cure because that is the only hope he has to come out of this unscathed. This is a Hail Mary effort due to the fact America has this drug stockpiled.

Maybe that's the reason for the politicking but this drug was on the the list from John's Hopkins and others before Trump pushed it.
Trump is absolute wrong and irresponsible to take a single doctor in France with 30 patients and viral load and push it the way he has. That was the social media timing and what Trump followed (there were small Chinese studies...I assure you Trump didn't read those. I watched the 'viral' move happen). But that's what social media did before him (see the tweets in this very thread) and even Elon Musk overstating the same on his twitter.
The claim of "stockpiling" is silly due to the double edged sword there.
We SHOULD be fixing the supply chain shortages that this focus and bias has caused. Instead of stockpiling, we should be supplementing supply chains.

Just as Trump is wrong on his promotion, this is not a hail mary drug. It's just way overstated in benefits.
We should all be primarily concerned about the methodology by which we are getting to this point...You should be concerned that "plaquenil good/bad" = I'm for/against Trump is being promoted.

Since Trump started touting it as the next cure ... vast resources have been relocated to study it instead of other drugs.. Pre Trump endorsement, 1 in 10 studies focused on it, since Trumps support, that number has grown to 1 in 3 studies focusing on it.

Link me. I would like to try to understand how that's happening. If it's a soft power push and people are just focused to answer the question being broadcast... or if there is funding that made that happen?

 

[Deleted member 1]

@sparkuri Bill Gates is studying plaquenil in an 'accelerator trial' to determine efficacy.
Whatcha gonna do when you and Bill Gates agree?

Three weeks, two drug trials: An update on the Therapeutics Accelerator with Trevor Mundel

 

[Hauler]

It's not. I've posted the studies on plaquenil (name brand easier to type for me) throughout this thread.
It has the least evidence in the critically ill and almost assuredly does not work there as there is no evidence it works and at least one study and a lot of case observations that it didn't. So early data, but trend is no.

The primary evidence for the drug is only in very small non symptom based studies in medical surgical floor level patients. They note decreased viral load, but did not study improvement in symptoms. This is very important. Virus goes down by day 6? ok. Do 95% of your patients have resolved symptoms by day 6 anyways? Then the drug would be unlikely to help 95% of those patients even if viral load is lower in them. Simply we don't know because the studies don't show that. They weren't patient focused studies.

There is one Chinese study that did an ok job of trying to focus on symptoms and I summarized it earlier in the thread. Their patients got better about a day sooner but most importantly no patients went from mid level sickness to ICU level. 2 patients out of 30 or so did go to the ICU that were not treated. That's an incomplete study but in patients that you wont harm, the drug is reasonable to use in medical surgical floor patients.


With that said, Trump is absolutely 100% in the wrong to keep promoting this drug or any drug as a figurehead. If he wants to help promote it, authorize funding to build a bunch of the generic to fix the shortage he's created and so physicians can use the drug and run trials ASAP. Use the power of the federal government to centralize a reporting database for doctors to treat a patient with demographic info and outcomes. That's it. Shut up and just help us study the damn thing instead of impeding that by distorting its usage and supply chains.

Trump does not have the moral or technical high ground to sit here continue to call for an uproven drug's use without the extensive context that comes with a 12 year training career that is being a physician. There is a litany of things I can write about the insane harm this is causing, as well as the total distortion of highly limited data politicizing my and other doctors work in trying to save patient lives.

Just as you thought they were using this on ICU patients, or the stuff in the news conflating Trump's "right to try" law with the FDA's "limted emergency authorization of hydroxychloroquine" patients believe something has changed. Some think Trump authorized me and others to use this drug (he didn't, I always could) for COVID19. That's directly due to this politicking. What has happened is that he has not enabled studies to move any faster. He has created a shortage. States are forced to limit outpatient usage of this drug for COVID19 to preserve supply chains for inpatient usage, etc. I am now less flexible in the use of this drug due to these factors and my patients that need these drugs to stay out of the hospital in the first place are running out of them due to shortages.

Makes sense.
Good info.

 

[silentsinger]

I really don't understand why Bill Gates is coming under fire. He's pumping billions into research and yet he's seen as that bad wolf?

 

[Deleted member 1]

I really don't understand why Bill Gates is coming under fire. He's pumping billions into research and yet he's seen as that bad wolf?

Bill Gates has a lot of money and because he pumps so much money into causes he can choose which causes are going to get focused.
Bill Gates is a goal-oriented guy that has delineated lines in the sand and wants his money to be used where there is a defined outcome point to prove success. polio has been nearly eradicated off the globe by his efforts. This is great. There are a handful of cases and rural India that haven't been quite removed and he is tenacious wanting this last ones removed. like anything the first 90% is cheap the next 10% cost a lot more and that lasts 0.01% cost a ton. So he's currently spending a lot of money on those last cases. In the meantime AIDS is still rampant in Africa. No yes Bill Gates is involved in that too but is the money better spent on this last few polio patients and removing polio from the face of the Earth forever? Or is it better spent on the first 90% of something else? This is a valid criticism and has to do with short-term versus long-term investment and your thoughts on altruism and whether this is a zero-sum game. it's Bill Gates puts in 10 billion dollars to eradicate the last bit of polio then then that's a good thing. If you put that 10 billion towards AIDS reduction it's probably better. but who are you to tell Bill Gates that he needs to spend his money on your project instead of his project?
Regardless people worry that his influence on these things becomes a distortion field that regears entire organizations towards those goals when those organizations might have chosen different goals if they had a more varied source of funding.

Also Bill Gates is part of the New world order intelligencia who looks to create 5G bio-weapon viruses to promote globalism forced vaccination.

 

[member 603]

Bill Gates has a lot of money and because he pumps so much money into causes he can choose which causes are going to get focused.
Bill Gates is a goal-oriented guy that has delineated lines in the sand and wants his money to be used where there is a defined outcome point to prove success. polio has been nearly eradicated off the globe by his efforts. This is great. There are a handful of cases and rural India that haven't been quite removed and he is tenacious wanting this last ones removed. like anything the first 90% is cheap the next 10% cost a lot more and that lasts 0.01% cost a ton. So he's currently spending a lot of money on those last cases. In the meantime AIDS is still rampant in Africa. No yes Bill Gates is involved in that too but is the money better spent on this last few polio patients and removing polio from the face of the Earth forever? Or is it better spent on the first 90% of something else? This is a valid criticism and has to do with short-term versus long-term investment and your thoughts on altruism and weather this is a zero-sum game. it's Bill Gates puts in 10 billion dollars to eradicate the last bit of polio then then that's a good thing. If you put that 10 billion towards AIDS reduction it's probably better. but who are you to tell Bill Gates that he needs to spend his money on your project instead of his project?
Regardless people worry that his influence on these things becomes a distortion field that regears entire organizations towards those goals when those organizations might have chosen different goals if they had a more varied source of funding.

Also Bill Gates is part of the New world order intelligencia who looks to create 5G bio-weapon viruses to promote globalism forced vaccination.

AAAAAH And it's that LAST sentence that he'll be remembered by for all eternity for..... Fuck an Xbox, 5G KILLA BABY!!!

 

[FINGERS]

I want to slap idiots who are not wearing masks in public.
If i was Trump i would have order the cops to shoot them on sight.
ohh I am illness proof . Fuck you idiots.

People in China and Japan wear masks everyday way before this happened, it’s become part of their culture.

mainly due to smog in China and being weird in Japan.

they still got got and will get get in the case of Japan,

masks are not the magic bullet. Testing is.

 

[silentsinger]

Bill Gates has a lot of money and because he pumps so much money into causes he can choose which causes are going to get focused.
Bill Gates is a goal-oriented guy that has delineated lines in the sand and wants his money to be used where there is a defined outcome point to prove success. polio has been nearly eradicated off the globe by his efforts. This is great. There are a handful of cases and rural India that haven't been quite removed and he is tenacious wanting this last ones removed. like anything the first 90% is cheap the next 10% cost a lot more and that lasts 0.01% cost a ton. So he's currently spending a lot of money on those last cases. In the meantime AIDS is still rampant in Africa. No yes Bill Gates is involved in that too but is the money better spent on this last few polio patients and removing polio from the face of the Earth forever? Or is it better spent on the first 90% of something else? This is a valid criticism and has to do with short-term versus long-term investment and your thoughts on altruism and weather this is a zero-sum game. it's Bill Gates puts in 10 billion dollars to eradicate the last bit of polio then then that's a good thing. If you put that 10 billion towards AIDS reduction it's probably better. but who are you to tell Bill Gates that he needs to spend his money on your project instead of his project?
Regardless people worry that his influence on these things becomes a distortion field that regears entire organizations towards those goals when those organizations might have chosen different goals if they had a more varied source of funding.

Also Bill Gates is part of the New world order intelligencia who looks to create 5G bio-weapon viruses to promote globalism forced vaccination.

I knew nothing about his polio efforts. Know probably why? He doesn't need everyone to know. He's not Trumping it about letting everyone know how wonderful he is and how Polio is his bitch.

You are completely right about people judging how he should spend his money. Should it not be up to him? Amy research is good research at the moment and as one of the greatest billionaires who literally has money to burn, he should be on a pedestal, not slagged off.

I would like to see something from Richard Branson other than him not paying the airline crew he's had to fire. Elon's done his bit, Bill is...time to get involved, Dicky Branson.

 

[Deleted member 1]

Elon's done his bit

 

[FINGERS]

View: https://twitter.com/DareeceteleSUR/status/1248275974405439489?s=20


stay classy

The land of the brave

 

[Freeloading Rusty]

Link me. I would like to try to understand how that's happening. If it's a soft power push and people are just focused to answer the question being broadcast... or if there is funding that made that happen?

Trump's support of hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 could slow cure

Before the president’s tweet, roughly 1 in 10 trials studied hydroxychloroquine as an intervention. After, 1 in 3 new trials involve hydroxychloroquine.

 

[The Big Guy]

That guy Williams, Candance Owens, Diamonds and Silk, that sorry ass Sgt Pepper looking motherfucker who was a cop...... The coonery is strong with them. They are so full of shit, and we can all safely assume that they have a shrine in their homes with pictures of Trump, Carlton from the Fresh Prince of Bel Air, and Stephan from Django Unchained.

I got that same shrine last week

 

[silentsinger]

Mars doesn't sound like such an insane idea now, does it?

 

[Deleted member 1]

Mars doesn't sound like such an insane idea now, does it?

Elon "Tesla can easily build ventilators, here they are, but really I just bought some CPAP machines from a company and put inkjet printed 8 1/2x11 Tesla logos tapes to the boxes for media attention" Musk has spent a bunch of the Coronavirus slow playing a lack of threat only to then promote himself as a savior.

"Put those Thai kids back in the cave so I can save them" - Elon Musk, probably.

 

[FINGERS]

I got that same shrine last week

Sean cooneray?

 

[Atto]

People in China and Japan wear masks everyday way before this happened, it’s become part of their culture.

mainly due to smog in China and being weird in Japan.

they still got got and will get get in the case of Japan,

masks are not the magic bullet. Testing is.

You are so right

 

[ThatOneDude]

@Splinty is about to be pissed.

Exclusive: More Texas City nursing home patients get hydroxychloroquine as doctor sees progress

 

[Atto]

@Evil Cucknievel
Damn, you are so right

 

[FINGERS]

Elon "Tesla can easily build ventilators, here they are, but really I just bought some CPAP machines from a company and put inkjet printed 8 1/2x11 Tesla logos tapes to the boxes for media attention" Musk has spent a bunch of the Coronavirus slow playing a lack of threat only to then promote himself as a savior.

"Put those Thai kids back in the cave so I can save them" - Elon Musk, probably.

Yeah. I don’t really get musk tbh.

Is he a genius? The cars seem very popular and he gets a fuckton of money from the government for his satellite launches.

respect for him being in Rik and morty though

 

[Deleted member 1]

Trump's support of hydroxychloroquine for COVID-19 could slow cure

Remdesivir, favipiravir and galidesivir are three examples of antiviral drugs that have shown early promise against the coronavirus, she said. It is far more intuitive that one of these drugs would wind up being a cure than an antimalarial, she said, which is more of a treatment that helps prevent the immune system from overworking itself.

But these drugs are being tested in only a dozen of the 183 coronavirus drug trials on the NIH registry. By comparison, four dozen of these trials involve hydroxychloroquine.

48 trials on hydroxychloroquine don't concern me. If they're all small trials instead of being a coordinated multicenter trial I find that concerning. And that could easily be fixed with funding from the government in a very rapid period of time.

The lack of trials on those other drugs may be fa damning fact against the government organized response. But maybe not. Not all studies are equal. And I'm aware that the Gilead remdesvir trial is at least a large multicenter phase three trial. 5 or 10 French studies still aren't as good as that single trial.

This stuff all really needs to be run in parallel. The article does suggest that the only reason for the uptick and studies is the soft power promotion. That's definitely a concern.

 

[Atto]

@Evil Cucknievel
You can't test the entire population its impossible.
Many will get ok and you never know they had corona.

 

[silentsinger]

Yeah. I don’t really get musk tbh.

Is he a genius? The cars seem very popular and he gets a fuckton of money from the government for his satellite launches.

respect for him being in Rik and morty though

Tesla is local to me and space fascinates me so I've got a bit of a thing for him. Didn't he just turn one of the factories into a ventilator producer?

 

[The Big Guy]

Sean cooneray?

No carlton from fresh prince

 

[The Big Guy]

Tesla is local to me and space fascinates me so I've got a bit of a thing for him. Didn't he just turn one of the factories into a ventilator producer?

Just wait until Elon starts making sex toys