Society What are your thoughts on all the white people cops kill?

Splinty said:
Because science:

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Oh, so I must have missed it, but which part did they ramped up psyche evals and desecalation training?
Splinty said:
Bayonets aren't the wrong tool for police. Police just need to learn to use them the right way. Don't waste those bayonets. - @
ConorMcGregorsBeard
@ConorMcGregorsBeard probably
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Fixing policing is an all or nothing proposal with no room for nuance of dissenting opinions. - @Splinty probably
 
Splinty said:
Ironically, despite my gripes about people like the above picture that I posted of men Larping in multicam, I trust a marine or soldier to hold their shot better than most cops. As @ThatOneDude has mentioned police ROE seem looser in many cases than him being a crayon eater in Baghdad.
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As do I.


Namaste
 
Jocko Willink addressed this issue. Police need more training. They get some 2 month training and go out to do the real-life missions compared to the military who goes through over a year of work up phase, then deploy for few months.

although when I was a boot, we trained for year and half, we were ready, locked and load and when the 2003 invasion kicked off, there was a stop loss stop move order so we were stuck in Okinawa.

then following year, we had 3 month of training and deployed to Iraq to do stability and security operations which is like the role of a police officer. lot of things went to shit in 2004.
Splinty said:
I think many urban police departments are overly militarized and using veterans as a preferred applicant is short-sighted. Citizens are not the enemy like a war zone. Training cops to think of themselves as a pseudo military entity is pretty screwed up.

The militarization of police departments results in too much aggression and force against pretty much everybody they encounter at a population level.
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ConorMcGregorsBeard said:
I understand all of that. That's where training and honest evaluation is supposed to come into play. When you're looking at applicants it behooves you to select the ones with the most difficult to attain skills/experience and teach them the rest.
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This is exactly right.

I think most of these problems come down to supervisors and management.

i don't know a Sgt or Lt anywhere that wouldn't pick a applicant with military background over anyone, even someone with prior experience. Unless they didn't do well in the military, they are some of the easiest to train. It takes didn't kinds of people/personalities to work in law enforcement. But you have to have the right supervisor making/assigning the calls.

You've had a homicide and need that scene controlled and need the paperwork to be spot on? Send your vet.

You need a radar set up in an area your receiving multiple speeding complaints (tedious job with paperwork that most cops wouldn't do)? Send your vet.

You have a hostile situation and you need a backup that will stand back quietly while the lead cop does the talking but will be the first one to notice something about to go down, AND be able to respond? Send your vet.

Teenagers throwing a party? Don't send your vet.

Someone that's a little drunk and raising hell at home that needs to maybe be talked into going to bed or leaving for the night? Do NOT send your vet. Lol

This is the third call on same guy and he needs to be buckled up nice & quick and taken to jail? Send your vet.


It's all about leaders and management.

Edit: thought of another one, hostage situation or robbery in progress, etc. the ones where you need the cop to do exactly as you say immediately, and not make any dumb rash decisions on their own, you NEED that vet!
 
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Lets focus all of our efforts fixing police but none on the lack of personal accountability most people have now. George floyd and mike Brown were both shitstains on society, the fact its now viewed as wrong to say this is the problem.
 
Sorry, rant ahead.

I had the opportunity to see it done right. We had a Sgt that loved to have "in service" training and loved to teach. We had a LT that could read people and make decisions accordingly.

Example, a military vet that was hired and was just as @Splinty described, by the book and no flexibility. He would write a damn speeding ticket for doing 56 in a 55 mph speed zone. Everything was black and white and If a law was broken they were going to jail. But then LT started coaching him on some calls.
Say something like a drunk and disorderly call. Lt would have him switch to a private channel and say "if the guy is just drunk and stupid, send him home." Little things like that and within a short time he "got it."

Another example, we hired a young kid, big and badass. He and another young cop were buddies so got assigned the same area together. It wasn't long before at least once a week a fight broke out on a call. Doesn't take a genius to know they were antagonizing and feeding off each other. They started getting assigned to quiet, low crime areas with an older more laid back cop as their partner.

However, you know the areas were you have a family gathering of 30 or more drunks (white rednecks) that always end up with fighting? The ones that you send no less than 3 cops because they also don't respect authority? Those two young bucks would often get those calls with a senior officer.

It's all about managing your resources. There is a time and place for everything and every kind.
 
HEATH VON DOOM said:
Lets focus all of our efforts fixing police but none on the lack of personal accountability most people have now. George floyd and mike Brown were both shitstains on society, the fact its now viewed as wrong to say this is the problem.
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I wasn't aware George Floyd and Mike Brown were hired by taxpayers to protect the public. Who knew???


Namaste
 
MartyLife said:
I wasn't aware George Floyd and Mike Brown were hired by taxpayers to protect the public. Who knew???


Namaste
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Neither side is innocent, imo. Big Floyd was a piece of shit that should not have been killed the way he was, but he also wasn't an angel. IMO he shouldn't have even been out of prison for what he did to the pregnant woman.
 
ConorMcGregorsBeard said:
You want to bring in people with life experience, who also have seen and can deal with some grizzly shit.



"Training" lol.



There's a couple things here. Militarization makes sense, because throwing perfectly good stuff in the garbage in order to buy new stuff is fiscally irresponsible. Behavior is not inextricably connected with militarization. That's a narrative that's often repeated but holds no water.
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you're in favor of the DoD giving Bearcats, ARs, and .50 cal rifles to local PDs and Sheriffs?

Do you think the 'militarization' is only in reference to the re-appropriating of equipment?
 
ThatOneDude said:
Neither side is innocent, imo. Big Floyd was a piece of shit that should not have been killed the way he was, but he also wasn't an angel. IMO he shouldn't have even been out of prison for what he did to the pregnant woman.
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what did he do to a pregnant woman?
 
HEATH VON DOOM said:
Lets focus all of our efforts fixing police but none on the lack of personal accountability most people have now. George floyd and mike Brown were both shitstains on society, the fact its now viewed as wrong to say this is the problem.
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not wrong, just not relevant to the standard of behavior that we expect from people we grant a monopoly on initiating violence.
 
Brian Ortega's Goon Hand said:
not wrong, just not relevant to the standard of behavior that we expect from people we grant a monopoly on initiating violence.
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Pretty sure the people we grant a monopoly on violence are not the same people you are thinking of.

If you cant hold yourself to higher standards how do you hold others to those standards?
 
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