Society Derek Chauvin Trial - Live Thread

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Thuglife13

Thuglife13

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Dec 15, 2018
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Banjaxo said:
Regarding the first tweet, I very much doubt that any of the witnesses called to the stand are just going to stroll into that courtroom in their scruffy everyday clothes.
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Agreed. I just thought it was a funny tweet since in the video she looks like a total scrub and what people would call a "Karen" which I hate then shows up at court in her official Firefighter's uniform. I know it's all about optics but I wish both sides should have standards when it comes to things like this because it's obviously for show which is what trials have become sadly...
 
Freeloading Rusty

Freeloading Rusty

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Jan 11, 2016
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Doctors challenge 'drug overdose' defense in Derek Chauvin's murder trial
www.reuters.com

Doctors challenge 'drug overdose' defense in Derek Chauvin's murder trial

Medical experts used anatomical diagrams and charts to testify on Thursday that George Floyd was killed by police pinning him to the ground, not a drug overdose, challenging a key assertion by former police officer Derek Chauvin in his murder trial for Floyd's deadly arrest.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
Dr. William Smock, a forensic pathologist who works with police, told the jury that Floyd died of “positional asphyxia” from the police holds, “which is a fancy way of saying he died because he had no oxygen left in his body,” he said.
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Tobin said Floyd’s breathing became fatally shallow under the police restraint, but asked jurors to count along with him as they watched body-worn camera video of the dying Floyd’s torso, showing that the number of breaths he took per minute did not decrease up until the moment he lost consciousness.

A fentanyl overdose, in contrast, is marked by a sharp decrease in the frequency of breaths, he said.
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Shinkicker

Shinkicker

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Jan 30, 2016
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Freeloading Rusty said:
Doctors challenge 'drug overdose' defense in Derek Chauvin's murder trial
www.reuters.com

Doctors challenge 'drug overdose' defense in Derek Chauvin's murder trial

Medical experts used anatomical diagrams and charts to testify on Thursday that George Floyd was killed by police pinning him to the ground, not a drug overdose, challenging a key assertion by former police officer Derek Chauvin in his murder trial for Floyd's deadly arrest.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
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"A fentanyl overdose, in contrast, is marked by a sharp decrease in the frequency of breaths, he said."


Unless.....

The fentanyl caused 'wooden chest syndrome' which doesn't look like a normal overdose. It's quick and sudden.

Find any old school trauma nurse and she will tell you that if you give fentanyl rapidly you take a chance of killing them.


Anesthesiologists in the United States were introduced to fentanyl in the early 1970s when it revolutionized surgical anesthesia by combining profound analgesia with hemodynamic stability. However, they quickly had to master its unique side effect. F/FAs can produce profound rigidity in the diaphragm, chest wall and upper airway within an extremely narrow dosing range. This clinical effect was called wooden chest syndrome (WCS) by anesthesiologists and is not commonly known outside of anesthesiology or to clinicians or researchers in addiction research/medicine. WCS is almost routinely fatal without expert airway management....

Although morphine and its prodrug, heroin, can cause mild rigidity in abdominal muscles at high doses, neither presents with the distinct and rapid respiratory failure seen with F/FA-induced WCS, separating F/FA overdose from the slower onset of respiratory depression caused by morphine-derived alkaloids.
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Freeloading Rusty

Freeloading Rusty

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Jan 11, 2016
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Shinkicker said:
"A fentanyl overdose, in contrast, is marked by a sharp decrease in the frequency of breaths, he said."


Unless.....

The fentanyl caused 'wooden chest syndrome' which doesn't look like a normal overdose. It's quick and sudden.

Find any old school trauma nurse and she will tell you that if you give fentanyl rapidly you take a chance of killing them.
Click to expand...
Your saying the same thing as the doctor.. are you not?

Overdoses by large amounts of fentanyl are characterized by:

‘sharp decrease in the frequency of breaths’

or

‘quick and sudden’ respiratory failure
 
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Shinkicker

Shinkicker

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Freeloading Rusty said:
Your saying the same thing as the doctor.. are you not?

Overdoses by large amounts of fentanyl are characterized by:

‘sharp decrease in the frequency of breaths’

or

‘quick and sudden’ respiratory failure
Click to expand...
The doctor said the number of breaths should have decreased which then leads to death, which is true in an overdose. Wood chest syndrome causes your organs to freeze, stopping your breathing suddenly.
 
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Freeloading Rusty said:
Your saying the same thing as the doctor.. are you not?

Overdoses by large amounts of fentanyl are characterized by:

‘sharp decrease in the frequency of breaths’

or

‘quick and sudden’ respiratory failure
Click to expand...
You’re *
 
Shinkicker

Shinkicker

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Freeloading Rusty said:
Your saying the same thing as the doctor.. are you not?

Overdoses by large amounts of fentanyl are characterized by:

‘sharp decrease in the frequency of breaths’

or

‘quick and sudden’ respiratory failure
Click to expand...
To be fair though, if it was wooden chest syndrome it would have happened almost immediately after injecting the fentanyl. If he ingested a large quantity to hide it, well I'm not sure if it would trigger this and/or how it would be delayed.

This doesn't change my opinion that the police officer should be held accountable for his actions.

It was probably the knee.
 
Freeloading Rusty

Freeloading Rusty

Here comes Rover, sniffin’ at your ass
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Shinkicker said:
To be fair though, if it was wooden chest syndrome it would have happened almost immediately after injecting the fentanyl. If he ingested a large quantity to hide it, well I'm not sure if it would trigger this and/or how it would be delayed.

This doesn't change my opinion that the police officer should be held accountable for his actions.

It was probably the knee.
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According to the reports, the level of fentanyl in his system was low’ish. 11ng/mg not a level that usually causes such reactions in regular users.
 
Shinkicker

Shinkicker

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Freeloading Rusty said:
According to the reports, the level of fentanyl in his system was low’ish. 11ng/mg not a level that usually causes such reactions in regular users.
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They are speaking to the levels that would cause an overdose. The way I've been taught is the fast pushing of fentanyl can trigger wooden chest syndrome, not necessarily the amount being given.

That's why I don't know if ingesting it can trigger this. If his adrenaline was flowing and he metabolized It quickly then maybe....I don't know.

It may not even be possible through disgestion. I just know it can happen when given intravenously. I'll have to look into that.
 
Shinkicker

Shinkicker

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Freeloading Rusty said:
According to the reports, the level of fentanyl in his system was low’ish. 11ng/mg not a level that usually causes such reactions in regular users.
Click to expand...
In a recent study, Spiller and colleagues collected and examined the forensic data from all illicit fentanyl-related deaths in Franklin County, Ohio, over 9 months in 2015.1Presumptive positive fentanyl results were confirmed by quantitative analysis using liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry, and were able to quantify fentanyl, norfentanyl, alfentanyl, and sulfentanyl. A total of 48 deaths from fentanyl intoxication were identified, of which 23 were confirmed intravenous (IV) administration, 22 were suspected IV administration, and 3 exposures were by ingestion. The mean fentanyl concentrations were 12.5 ng/ml (range: 0.5 ng/ml to >40 ng/ml), and the mean norfentanyl concentrations were 1.9 ng/ml (range: none detected to 8.3 ng/ml). No appreciable concentrations of norfentanyl could be detected in 20 of 48 cases (42%), and concentrations were less than 1 ng/ml in 25 cases (52%). In several cases, fentanyl concentrations were significantly high (22 ng/ml and 20 ng/ml) without any detection of norfentanyl.

“We believe these results are highly suggestive of fentanyl playing a role in chest wall rigidity. Not all of the deaths were suspect of chest wall rigidity, as there were detectable metabolites in several cases. However, approximately half of our cases did not have any measurable level of norfentanyl, which suggests a very rapid death consistent with chest wall rigidity,” Spiller says.

*****
 
Shinkicker

Shinkicker

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I just read more on the doctor's testimony. He ruled out wooden chest syndrome. I believe him. :)
 
Robbie Hart

Robbie Hart

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Feb 13, 2015
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You don’t put your weight on someone’s neck for that long. Common sense
Drugged up or not, just makes no sense
 
Hauler

Hauler

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Feb 3, 2016
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Robbie Hart said:
You don’t put your weight on someone’s neck for that long. Common sense
Drugged up or not, just makes no sense
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Yup.
It shows he gave zero fucks for that guy's life. It's not how the law works - but I don't really give a shit if Floyd died of drugs or because of the knee. Chauvin is a prick and he deserves what he gets. Karma.
 
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