General Russia Ukraine round 2 Price hike boogaloo

[Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $]

I got sucked into some NDTV the other day and holy shot does India have a unique take on news. So much passion. If you haven’t already tried he sure to check out Palms Sharma on WION on YouTube. She’s easy on the eyes and oh so sassy.

View: https://youtu.be/-5nvtnLlwX0

Right?

They don't fuck around. They call it exactly how they see it.

So refreshing as opposed to American media where Fox, CNN and MSNBC
are all pushing their own agendas.

 

[NotBanjaxo]

Look @NotBanjaxo there is an app that compiles Twitter threads!

View: https://twitter.com/threadreaderapp/status/1501362227168915458?s=20&t=leAg5JG3RbY0_0wRwI-b7Q

C'mon man, that's like at least 3 extra mouse clicks!

 

[member 1013]

Yea they’ve fought a lot historically and the USSR was not kind to them.

looks like the states is walking it back doe


View: https://twitter.com/MichaelDeMatteo/status/1501373637441560591?s=20&t=hvh8IZ63cnpGTTxM_UHB_Q

Or did they @SongExotic2 ?!?!


View: https://twitter.com/Ukrainolution/status/1501368833289777155?s=20&t=hvh8IZ63cnpGTTxM_UHB_Q

 

[La Paix]

Right?

They don't fuck around. They call it exactly how they see it.

So refreshing as opposed to American media where Fox, CNN and MSNBC
are all pushing their own agendas.

I watch it when I’ve seen the latest for the day elsewhere and want to add some infotainment. The commercials in English are just as over the top. I could see this evolving into a Bollywood obsession over time.

 

[Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $]

I watch it when I’ve seen the latest for the day elsewhere and want to add some infotainment. The commercials in English are just as over the top. I could see this evolving into a Bollywood obsession over time.

Well I'm hooked. Palms Sharma had me hooked when she went in with zero fucks given
on how NATO helped provoke this war.

I didn't know that the US had promised to halt NATO expansion if Putin disbanded
the Warsaw pact and allowed Germany to join Nato.

The US stiffed the fuck out of him on that deal then kept right
on expanding NATO right up to his front door step.

 

[La Paix]

I didn't know that the US had promised to halt NATO expansion if Putin disbanded
the Warsaw pact and allowed Germany to join Nato.

They didn’t. We all discussed this in here a few days ago. That “promise” was in the context of a unified Germanys borders. Like I said, India news isn’t my first choice.

 

[member 1013]

They didn’t. We all discussed this in here a few days ago. That “promise” was in the context of a unified Germanys borders. Like I said, India news isn’t my first choice.

It’s pure revisionist history @Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $

 

[La Paix]

It’s pure revisionist history @Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $

@Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $ one of many easily sourced videos.


View: https://youtu.be/PB4C08m3JOY

 

[Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $]

They didn’t. We all discussed this in here a few days ago. That “promise” was in the context of a unified Germanys borders. Like I said, India news isn’t my first choice.

It’s pure revisionist history @Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $

So who do you trust to verify the validity if everyone is lying.

We know the US lies.

We know Russia lies

So if India is lying then how do you verify anything??

The one fact I can see objectively is that NATO has indeed expanded right up to Putin's door step.

Now whether NATO & the US promised not to do that or not is another discussion
and seems everyone has a different story

 

[member 1013]

@Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $ one of many easily sourced videos.


View: https://youtu.be/PB4C08m3JOY

Lol at trusting someone with a moustache like that!

 

[La Paix]

View: https://youtu.be/jo4OoBm0Vis

 

[Wild]

EXCLUSIVE: Deleted Web Pages Show Obama Led an Effort To Build a Ukraine-Based BioLab Handling 'Especially Dangerous Pathogens'.

 

[La Paix]

So who do you trust to verify the validity if everyone is lying.

We know the US lies.

We know Russia lies

So if India is lying then how do you verify anything??

The one fact I can see objectively is that NATO has indeed expanded right up to Putin's door step.

Now whether NATO & the US promised not to do that are not is another discussion
and seems everyone has a different story

I’m not saying all of India is lying. As soon as I tuned into any news from India you can see they’re all about sensationalism. It’s exactly what you posted with that guy crushing other guys argument. It’s a panel full of people talking over each other, flashing graphics, lots of emotionally driven language…. You can find similar style news from any country I’m sure. As soon as I see that i become skeptical and look for first hand sources of possible.



According to transcripts released years later by the United States and Russia, Baker broached the subject with the argument that it was better to have a unified Germany within NATO's political and military structure than outside of it.

"At no point in the discussion did either Baker or Gorbachev bring up the question of the possible extension of NATO membership to other Warsaw Pact countries beyond Germany," according to Mark Kramer, director of the Cold War Studies Project at Harvard University's Davis Center, who reviewed the declassified transcripts and other materials.

"Indeed, it never would have occurred to them to raise an issue that was not on the agenda anywhere, not in Washington, not in Moscow, and not in any other Warsaw Pact or NATO capital," Kramer wrote in a April 2009 journal article.

Gorbachev met with West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl the day after the meeting with Baker. According to Kramer's research, the subject of German unification was more prominent on the agenda than it had been with Baker. "Gorbachev did not seek any assurances about [NATO enlargement] and certainly did not receive any," Kramer wrote.

Ultimately, according to Steven Pifer, a former U.S. ambassador who was serving at the State Department at the time, the United States, France, and Britain, along with Germany, agreed not to deploy non-German NATO forces in the former East Germany.

In 1999, years after German reunification and the withdrawal of all Soviet troops from Eastern Europe, NATO admitted three former Warsaw Pact countries: Poland, the Czech Republic, and Hungary.

Did The West Promise Moscow That NATO Would Not Expand? Well, It's Complicated.

Mikhail Gorbachev himself said the question of NATO's expansion didn't come up in discussions when he was Soviet leader. That hasn't stopped the assertion that NATO and the United States misled Moscow from becoming a central grievance for Russian President Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin.

www.rferl.org

 

[Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $]

@Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $ one of many easily sourced videos.


View: https://youtu.be/PB4C08m3JOY

Ok so how can we verify what this guy is saying versus everyone elses lies.

I'll try to research both stories.

Like I was saying though the only thing I can see objectively is that NATO did expand
right up to Putin's borders. I'll have to do further research now as to whether they promised
not to or not.

Its actually a damn shame that all sides seem to be lying one way or another.

Geez you can't trust anything anymore

 

[member 1013]

EXCLUSIVE: Deleted Web Pages Show Obama Led an Effort To Build a Ukraine-Based BioLab Handling 'Especially Dangerous Pathogens'.

Ho

Lee

fooook

that says different things than @MMAHAWK ’s tweet

now i don’t know what to beleive

 

[member 1013]

So who do you trust to verify the validity if everyone is lying.

We know the US lies.

We know Russia lies

So if India is lying then how do you verify anything??

The one fact I can see objectively is that NATO has indeed expanded right up to Putin's door step.

Now whether NATO & the US promised not to do that or not is another discussion
and seems everyone has a different story

Ok so how can we verify what this guy is saying versus everyone elses lies.

I'll try to research both stories.

Like I was saying though the only thing I can see objectively is that NATO did expand
right up to Putin's borders. I'll have to do further research now as to whether they promised
not to or not.

Its actually a damn shame that all sides seem to be lying one way or another.

Geez you can't trust anything anymore

Gorbachev has corroborated it.

 

[Rambo John J]

Ok so how can we verify what this guy is saying versus everyone elses lies.

I'll try to research both stories.

Like I was saying though the only thing I can see objectively is that NATO did expand
right up to Putin's borders. I'll have to do further research now as to whether they promised
not to or not.

Its actually a damn shame that all sides seem to be lying one way or another.

Geez you can't trust anything anymore

Give this a listen Pre Holly

Sourced from live statements of "experts"

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H0rCqaGtJw

 

[Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $]

I’m not saying all of India is lying. As soon as I tuned into any news from India you can see they’re all about sensationalism. It’s exactly what you posted with that guy crushing other guys argument. It’s a panel full of people talking over each other, flashing graphics, lots of emotionally driven language…. You can find similar style news from any country I’m sure. As soon as I see that i become skeptical and look for first hand sources of possible.



According to transcripts released years later by the United States and Russia, Baker broached the subject with the argument that it was better to have a unified Germany within NATO's political and military structure than outside of it.

"At no point in the discussion did either Baker or Gorbachev bring up the question of the possible extension of NATO membership to other Warsaw Pact countries beyond Germany," according to Mark Kramer, director of the Cold War Studies Project at Harvard University's Davis Center, who reviewed the declassified transcripts and other materials.

"Indeed, it never would have occurred to them to raise an issue that was not on the agenda anywhere, not in Washington, not in Moscow, and not in any other Warsaw Pact or NATO capital," Kramer wrote in a April 2009 journal article.

Gorbachev met with West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl the day after the meeting with Baker. According to Kramer's research, the subject of German unification was more prominent on the agenda than it had been with Baker. "Gorbachev did not seek any assurances about [NATO enlargement] and certainly did not receive any," Kramer wrote.

Ultimately, according to Steven Pifer, a former U.S. ambassador who was serving at the State Department at the time, the United States, France, and Britain, along with Germany, agreed not to deploy non-German NATO forces in the former East Germany.

In 1999, years after German reunification and the withdrawal of all Soviet troops from Eastern Europe, NATO admitted three former Warsaw Pact countries: Poland, the Czech Republic, and Hungary.

Did The West Promise Moscow That NATO Would Not Expand? Well, It's Complicated.

Mikhail Gorbachev himself said the question of NATO's expansion didn't come up in discussions when he was Soviet leader. That hasn't stopped the assertion that NATO and the United States misled Moscow from becoming a central grievance for Russian President Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin.

www.rferl.org

"Indeed, it never would have occurred to them to raise an issue that was not on the agenda anywhere, not in Washington, not in Moscow, and not in any other Warsaw Pact or NATO capital," Kramer wrote in a April 2009 journal article."

Thanks, I believe I sourced the papers author as "Mark Kramer" director of Cold War studies at Harvard

Mark Kramer

So with all the lies from seemingly all sides how can I believe what Mark is reporting versus
Putin's or India's reporting.

Seems to me in this case the objective and reasonable option all the lying has left us
is to assume the old logical wisdom of "There are 3 sides to every story."

1. The story that side A is telling.

2. The story that side B is telling

3. ...and the Truth

 

[La Paix]

Ok so how can we verify what this guy is saying versus everyone elses lies.

I'll try to research both stories.

Like I was saying though the only thing I can see objectively is that NATO did expand
right up to Putin's borders. I'll have to do further research now as to whether they promised
not to or not.

Its actually a damn shame that all sides seem to be lying one way or another.

Geez you can't trust anything anymore

By no means am I claiming to not fall victim to fake news. For this topic of NATO expansion being the reason to justify invasion, that’s a big allegation so i started looking. The guy in the video is former deputy Secretary of State and his version can be verified. The link I sent, this one here

Setting the Record Straight on NATO Enlargement | Interview with Robert Zoellick, U.S. Lead Negotiator in 2+4 Talks on German Reunification

and others show agreements by all parties and transcripts that be be found simple enough.

 

[Deleted member 1]

EXCLUSIVE: Deleted Web Pages Show Obama Led an Effort To Build a Ukraine-Based BioLab Handling 'Especially Dangerous Pathogens'.

Biolab opens in Ukraine
by Tina Redlup on June 18, 2010

Richard-lugar
Sen. Dick Lugar

U.S. Sen. Dick Lugar applauded the opening of the Interim Central Reference Laboratory in Odessa, Ukraine, this week, announcing that it will be instrumental in researching dangerous pathogens used by bioterrorists.

The level-3 bio-safety lab, which is the first built under the expanded authority of the Nunn-Lugar Cooperative Threat Reduction program, will be used to study anthrax, tularemia and Q fever as well as other dangerous pathogens.

“The continuing cooperation of Nunn-Lugar partners has improved safety for all people against weapons of mass destruction and potential terrorist use, in addition to advancements in the prevention of pandemics and public health consequences,” Lugar said.

Lugar said plans for the facility began in 2005 when he and then Senator Barack Obama entered a partnership with Ukrainian officials. Lugar and Obama also helped coordinate efforts between the U.S and Ukrainian researchers that year in an effort to study and help prevent avian flu.

The Nunn-Lugar Act, which established the Cooperative Threat Reduction Program, was established in 1991. Since that time it has provided funding and assistance to help the former Soviet Union dismantle and safeguard large stockpiles of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. The program has also been responsible for destroying chemical weapons in Albania, Lugar said.

Homies... This is a nothing burger.
If you take the time to research the multiple other labs doing the same training and research all around the former Soviet Union You will see why this lab was funded.



But let's run with the theory. Why exactly do you think that the United States, which has military bases all over the world, and even has area 51 in the desert that US citizens can't get to, would develop a nefarious bio weapons lab in an unsecured third-party location in a country where there are interest directly against the United States that could easily access novel agents? What exactly about being next to Russia do you imagine? Do you think that if we developed bio weapons at some secured site where the Russians couldn't bomb the building, steal our bioweapons,etc that we couldn't transport, it? The theory is that we need to put our bio weapons out where anybody can attack or steal them?

 

[La Paix]

"Indeed, it never would have occurred to them to raise an issue that was not on the agenda anywhere, not in Washington, not in Moscow, and not in any other Warsaw Pact or NATO capital," Kramer wrote in a April 2009 journal article."

Thanks, I believe I sourced the papers author as "Mark Kramer" director of Cold War studies at Harvard

Mark Kramer

So with all the lies from seemingly all sides how can I believe what Mark is reporting versus
Putin's or India's reporting.

Seems to me in this case the objective and reasonable option all the lying has left us
is to assume the old logical wisdom of "There are 3 sides to every story."

1. The story that side A is telling.

2. The story that side B is telling

3. ...and the Truth

Very frustrating at times especially when you’re trying to keep up on latest while deciding what other info is relevant then look into that. It’s just that constant zooming out on what’s going on on to get big picture.

 

[Filthy]

She seems clear, more informed and less hysterical than other people's champ Tucker.

You couldn't set a lower bar if you tried

 

[Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $]

Give this a listen Pre Holly

Sourced from live statements of "experts"

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H0rCqaGtJw

I'll give it a listen. Not liking the "character" of the sources though. Not a fan of
Henry Kissinger. He has an agenda and was heavily involved in the "Petro Dollar".

I have several books on him from back when I actually believed
the US government on some things

 

[La Paix]

So with all the lies from seemingly all sides how can I believe what Mark is reporting versus
Putin's or India's reporting.

I don’t believe anything Putin says based on him consistently lying, being deceitful and trying to kill people.

 

[Rambo John J]

I'll give it a listen. Not liking the "character" of the sources though. Not a fan of
Henry Kissinger. He has an agenda and was heavily involved int eh "Petro Dollar".

I have several books on him from back when I actually believed
the US government on some things

The Video Creator shits all over Henry FYI, always has.

The video isn't about his credibility or message though.

Jimmy has a good show if you can get over his voice haha.