I watch it when I’ve seen the latest for the day elsewhere and want to add some infotainment. The commercials in English are just as over the top. I could see this evolving into a Bollywood obsession over time.
Well I'm hooked. Palms Sharma had me hooked when she went in with zero fucks given
on how NATO helped provoke this war.
I didn't know that the US had promised to halt NATO expansion if Putin disbanded
the Warsaw pact and allowed Germany to join Nato.
The US stiffed the fuck out of him on that deal then kept right
on expanding NATO right up to his front door step.
They didn’t. We all discussed this in here a few days ago. That “promise” was in the context of a unified Germanys borders. Like I said, India news isn’t my first choice.
M
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It’s pure revisionist history
@Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $
It’s pure revisionist history
@Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $ one of many easily sourced videos.View: https://youtu.be/PB4C08m3JOY
So who do you trust to verify the validity if everyone is lying.It’s pure revisionist history
We know the US lies.
We know Russia lies
So if India is lying then how do you verify anything??
The one fact I can see objectively is that NATO has indeed expanded right up to Putin's door step.
Now whether NATO & the US promised not to do that or not is another discussion
and seems everyone has a different story
M
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Lol at trusting someone with a moustache like that!
I’m not saying all of India is lying. As soon as I tuned into any news from India you can see they’re all about sensationalism. It’s exactly what you posted with that guy crushing other guys argument. It’s a panel full of people talking over each other, flashing graphics, lots of emotionally driven language…. You can find similar style news from any country I’m sure. As soon as I see that i become skeptical and look for first hand sources of possible.
According to transcripts released years later by the United States and Russia, Baker broached the subject with the argument that it was better to have a unified Germany within NATO's political and military structure than outside of it.
"At no point in the discussion did either Baker or Gorbachev bring up the question of the possible extension of NATO membership to other Warsaw Pact countries beyond Germany," according to Mark Kramer, director of the Cold War Studies Project at Harvard University's Davis Center, who reviewed the declassified transcripts and other materials.
"Indeed, it never would have occurred to them to raise an issue that was not on the agenda anywhere, not in Washington, not in Moscow, and not in any other Warsaw Pact or NATO capital," Kramer wrote in a April 2009 journal article.
Gorbachev met with West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl the day after the meeting with Baker. According to Kramer's research, the subject of German unification was more prominent on the agenda than it had been with Baker. "Gorbachev did not seek any assurances about [NATO enlargement] and certainly did not receive any," Kramer wrote.
Ultimately, according to Steven Pifer, a former U.S. ambassador who was serving at the State Department at the time, the United States, France, and Britain, along with Germany, agreed not to deploy non-German NATO forces in the former East Germany.
In 1999, years after German reunification and the withdrawal of all Soviet troops from Eastern Europe, NATO admitted three former Warsaw Pact countries: Poland, the Czech Republic, and Hungary.
Did The West Promise Moscow That NATO Would Not Expand? Well, It's Complicated.
Mikhail Gorbachev himself said the question of NATO's expansion didn't come up in discussions when he was Soviet leader. That hasn't stopped the assertion that NATO and the United States misled Moscow from becoming a central grievance for Russian President Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin.
www.rferl.org
Ok so how can we verify what this guy is saying versus everyone elses lies.
I'll try to research both stories.
Like I was saying though the only thing I can see objectively is that NATO did expand
right up to Putin's borders. I'll have to do further research now as to whether they promised
not to or not.
Its actually a damn shame that all sides seem to be lying one way or another.
Geez you can't trust anything anymore
M
member 1013
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M
member 1013
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Gorbachev has corroborated it.
Give this a listen Pre Holly
Sourced from live statements of "experts"
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H0rCqaGtJw
I’m not saying all of India is lying. As soon as I tuned into any news from India you can see they’re all about sensationalism. It’s exactly what you posted with that guy crushing other guys argument. It’s a panel full of people talking over each other, flashing graphics, lots of emotionally driven language…. You can find similar style news from any country I’m sure. As soon as I see that i become skeptical and look for first hand sources of possible.
According to transcripts released years later by the United States and Russia, Baker broached the subject with the argument that it was better to have a unified Germany within NATO's political and military structure than outside of it.
"At no point in the discussion did either Baker or Gorbachev bring up the question of the possible extension of NATO membership to other Warsaw Pact countries beyond Germany," according to Mark Kramer, director of the Cold War Studies Project at Harvard University's Davis Center, who reviewed the declassified transcripts and other materials.
"Indeed, it never would have occurred to them to raise an issue that was not on the agenda anywhere, not in Washington, not in Moscow, and not in any other Warsaw Pact or NATO capital," Kramer wrote in a April 2009 journal article.
Gorbachev met with West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl the day after the meeting with Baker. According to Kramer's research, the subject of German unification was more prominent on the agenda than it had been with Baker. "Gorbachev did not seek any assurances about [NATO enlargement] and certainly did not receive any," Kramer wrote.
Ultimately, according to Steven Pifer, a former U.S. ambassador who was serving at the State Department at the time, the United States, France, and Britain, along with Germany, agreed not to deploy non-German NATO forces in the former East Germany.
In 1999, years after German reunification and the withdrawal of all Soviet troops from Eastern Europe, NATO admitted three former Warsaw Pact countries: Poland, the Czech Republic, and Hungary.
Did The West Promise Moscow That NATO Would Not Expand? Well, It's Complicated.
Mikhail Gorbachev himself said the question of NATO's expansion didn't come up in discussions when he was Soviet leader. That hasn't stopped the assertion that NATO and the United States misled Moscow from becoming a central grievance for Russian President Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin.
"Indeed, it never would have occurred to them to raise an issue that was not on the agenda anywhere, not in Washington, not in Moscow, and not in any other Warsaw Pact or NATO capital," Kramer wrote in a April 2009 journal article."
Thanks, I believe I sourced the papers author as "Mark Kramer" director of Cold War studies at Harvard
Mark Kramer
daviscenter.fas.harvard.edu
So with all the lies from seemingly all sides how can I believe what Mark is reporting versus
Putin's or India's reporting.
Seems to me in this case the objective and reasonable option all the lying has left us
is to assume the old logical wisdom of "There are 3 sides to every story."
1. The story that side A is telling.
2. The story that side B is telling
3. ...and the Truth
By no means am I claiming to not fall victim to fake news. For this topic of NATO expansion being the reason to justify invasion, that’s a big allegation so i started looking. The guy in the video is former deputy Secretary of State and his version can be verified. The link I sent, this one here
Setting the Record Straight on NATO Enlargement | Interview with Robert Zoellick, U.S. Lead Negotiator in 2+4 Talks on German Reunification
and others show agreements by all parties and transcripts that be be found simple enough.
D
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Homies... This is a nothing burger.
If you take the time to research the multiple other labs doing the same training and research all around the former Soviet Union You will see why this lab was funded.
But let's run with the theory. Why exactly do you think that the United States, which has military bases all over the world, and even has area 51 in the desert that US citizens can't get to, would develop a nefarious bio weapons lab in an unsecured third-party location in a country where there are interest directly against the United States that could easily access novel agents? What exactly about being next to Russia do you imagine? Do you think that if we developed bio weapons at some secured site where the Russians couldn't bomb the building, steal our bioweapons,etc that we couldn't transport, it? The theory is that we need to put our bio weapons out where anybody can attack or steal them?
Very frustrating at times especially when you’re trying to keep up on latest while deciding what other info is relevant then look into that. It’s just that constant zooming out on what’s going on on to get big picture.
You couldn't set a lower bar if you tried
I'll give it a listen. Not liking the "character" of the sources though. Not a fan of
Henry Kissinger. He has an agenda and was heavily involved in the "Petro Dollar".
I have several books on him from back when I actually believed
the US government on some things
I don’t believe anything Putin says based on him consistently lying, being deceitful and trying to kill people.
The Video Creator shits all over Henry FYI, always has.
The video isn't about his credibility or message though.
Jimmy has a good show if you can get over his voice haha.
M
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Okay but Gorbachev who was the leader of the USSR said the same thing. Source: this brief but cited article:
Opinion: The many delusions of Russia-Ukraine ‘realists’
A conspiracy-minded and revisionist view of Russia’s troop accumulation – one that calls for Western democracies to do nothing – is threatening to take hold
www.theglobeandmail.com
Tucker and Fox are both on record saying essentially
"No reasonable person would believe that anything Tucker saying is true".
Yet they call themselves "News"
CNN not much better
MSNBC not much better either.
I checked out on American media long ago....
M
member 1013
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@Dat Pre-HollyHolm Ronda $ past the paywall:The realist also appears to be in thrall to some remarkable historical revisionism. The “promise to Russia” was a promise restricted to a single country that no longer exists, the former East Germany, made to the president of another country that no longer exists – who has stated it has no application beyond that. By contrast, Russia is a signatory not only of the 1994 Budapest Memorandum with Ukraine, in which it promised to respect its independence and territorial integrity, but the 1997 NATO-Russia Founding Act, in which it consented to the very NATO enlargement it now decries. Indeed, at the time it was envisaged Russia would one day join NATO.