Officer charged with murder

[lookoutawhale]

Well, he picked up his gun, so he knew the suspect didn't have that. Then he can use his eyes to see that the man is running away from him and not posing an imminent danger. This whole conversation would be different if they were stuggling and the guy got shot, but he wasn't attacking the officer when he was shot, he had his back to him and was fleeing.

I think thats where the problem is though. Why did this man think he could fight over weapons with a cop? Thats the part that changed the dynamic for me.

While they were fighting the cop must have been freaked out thinking hes going to die if this guy gets the gun. Then the cop in some adrenalin moment shot him.

I agree with everyone that the shooting was wrong bit this wasn't some innocent bystander either that simply ran away. He challenged the cop. He should not have done that. And then the cop shouldnt have shot out of fear either.

 

[Zeph]

I think thats where the problem is though. Why did this man think he could fight over weapons with a cop? Thats the part that changed the dynamic for me.

While they were fighting the cop must have been freaked out thinking hes going to die if this guy gets the gun. Then the cop in some adrenalin moment shot him.

I agree with everyone that the shooting was wrong bit this wasn't some innocent bystander either that simply ran away. He challenged the cop. He should not have done that. And then the cop shouldnt have shot out of fear either.

Ok, so lets charge the dead man with assaulting a police officer.

 

[Priziesthorse]

Cops in the US of free America are worse than the criminals they are supposedly chasing.

This is such an ignorant statement. Is the cop in this instance a terrible person and deserve jail? Absolutely. Are there bad cops out there? Absolutely. Theres also tons of awesome cops out there doing great things and care about the communities they patrol. You wont hear about them in the national news or local news because its just such a thankless job.

 

[Priziesthorse]

Need @seekntruth up in this bitch.

 

[ThatOneDude]

I think thats where the problem is though. Why did this man think he could fight over weapons with a cop? Thats the part that changed the dynamic for me.

While they were fighting the cop must have been freaked out thinking hes going to die if this guy gets the gun. Then the cop in some adrenalin moment shot him.

I agree with everyone that the shooting was wrong bit this wasn't some innocent bystander either that simply ran away. He challenged the cop. He should not have done that. And then the cop shouldnt have shot out of fear either.

If i shot people everytime i had an adrenaline rush or confrontation over seas i'd have more bodies than Chris Kyle, if you can't control people without shooting them you shouldnt be a cop.

 

[lookoutawhale]

Ok, so lets charge the dead man with assaulting a police officer.

just because hes dead doesn't mean hes not wrong for his part in this too. The actions of both the cop and man trying to steal the weapon are very poor.

 

[IschKabibble]

I see where you're coming from, @lookoutawhale. The guy wouldn't be dead if he was complying with orders and not showing aggression. That said, there was no immediate threat when the first shots were fired. If anything the cop should have given chase or just called for backup.

 

[lookoutawhale]

If i shot people everytime i had an adrenaline rush or confrontation over seas i'd have more bodies than Chris Kyle, if you can't control people without shooting them you shouldnt be a cop.

It depends though if you work in a job where you could be killed any day. I think a police officer's biggest fear is someone taking their weapon from them and murdering them with it or someone killing them in a routine stop like other incidents. It was a bad move on the cops part I agree but the other man also exasperated the situation.

A citizen should never try to wrestle with a cop and try and steal their weapon. It could lead to some crazy incident.

 

[lookoutawhale]

I see where you're coming from, @lookoutawhale. The guy wouldn't be dead if he was complying with orders and not showing aggression. That said, there was no immediate threat when the first shots were fired. If anything the cop should have given chase or just called for backup.

yeah i agree with that, thats why im saying its a bad move from both parties. The guy made a bad decision in wrestling with the cop and the cop made an even worse decision in firing round after round. It escalated really quickly in a few seconds. The cop should go to jail for sure. I just dont feel the other guy did the right thing either.

 

[IschKabibble]

Really hope they make an example out of this guy though...

 

[Splinty]

If you don't have the mindset and composure to not shoot a fleeing suspect in the back, you shouldn't be a cop. Not everyone should do every job just because they want to.

The guy scuffled and ran. If the cop shot him in that scuffle, I'd have a different opinion about what constitutes a reasonable in the moment response that we layman can't understand.

8 shots at a guy 15 yards away going the opposite direction? THEN drop your taser nearby to plant a weapon.

Murder was the case that they gave me!

 

[Calavaro]

This is such an ignorant statement. Is the cop in this instance a terrible person and deserve jail? Absolutely. Are there bad cops out there? Absolutely. Theres also tons of awesome cops out there doing great things and care about the communities they patrol. You wont hear about them in the national news or local news because its just such a thankless job.

Who Faced Police Brutality In February | ThinkProgress

American Cops Just Killed More People in March than the UK Did in the Entire 20th Century | The Free Thought Project

"Just last month, in the 31 days of March, police in the United States killed more people than the UK did in the entire 20th century. In fact, it was twice as many; police in the UK only killed 52 people during that 100 year period.

According to the report by ThinkProgess, in March alone, 111 people died during police encounters — 36 more than the previous month."

Keep in mind I didn't say "all" cops... I said "cops". This means it could be 2 or more. The reason for that statement is that I do not know how many bad cops you have, so I use the plural, and let you fill in the blank of how many based on your own experience.

Of course there are good cops... but they are generally shut up or forced into silence by the rotten system which has put in place bad people up the ranks, creating this shit the US is in.

 

[Calavaro]

Really hope they make an example out of this guy though...

Planting evidence after the fact (the taser I presume).
Throw him in jail and throw away the key. Then go after all the scumbags who helped cover this shit up.

 

[ThatOneDude]

It depends though if you work in a job where you could be killed any day. I think a police officer's biggest fear is someone taking their weapon from them and murdering them with it or someone killing them in a routine stop like other incidents. It was a bad move on the cops part I agree but the other man also exasperated the situation.

A citizen should never try to wrestle with a cop and try and steal their weapon. It could lead to some crazy incident.

I just think officers should be able to control people with less than lethal force and not jump to shooting people. they are too quick to shoot people. I can guaran-damn-tee I have been to placed 10x's more dangerous than a large majority of these cops and didnt feel the need to shoot people 99.9% of the time. There are other ways to control people and handle situations that dont require someone dying.

 

[D241]

It depends though if you work in a job where you could be killed any day. I think a police officer's biggest fear is someone taking their weapon from them and murdering them with it or someone killing them in a routine stop like other incidents. It was a bad move on the cops part I agree but the other man also exasperated the situation.

A citizen should never try to wrestle with a cop and try and steal their weapon. It could lead to some crazy incident.

You're looking at this objectively. You're putting yourself in the shoes of the officer and what his mindset could've been. I agree he probably felt threatened which doesn't justify what he did, but at least gives it some context. It was an uncalled for shooting, murder seems like an overstatement. More like very bad decision making that resulted in the worst case=death.

 

[Priziesthorse]

Keep in mind I didn't say "all" cops... I said "cops". This means it could be 2 or more. The reason for that statement is that I do not know how many bad cops you have, so I use the plural, and let you fill in the blank of how many based on your own experience.

Of course there are good cops... but they are generally shut up or forced into silence by the rotten system which has put in place bad people up the ranks, creating this shit the US is in.

"Cops in the US of free America are worse than the criminals they are supposedly chasing."

If you wrote "some cops" that would mean you meant 2 or more. By just saying "cops in the US" you imply all of them.

 

[D241]

I see where you're coming from, @lookoutawhale. The guy wouldn't be dead if he was complying with orders and not showing aggression. That said, there was no immediate threat when the first shots were fired. If anything the cop should have given chase or just called for backup.

But what's faster, the cop, or the bullet he shot?


In all seriousness the cop should've exhibited more restraint. I agree with you.

 

[Splinty]

I just think officers should be able to control people with less than lethal force and not jump to shooting people. they are too quick to shoot people. I can guaran-damn-tee I have been to placed 10x's more dangerous than a large majority of these cops and didnt feel the need to shoot people 99.9% of the time. There are other ways to control people and handle situations that dont require someone dying.

I'm a military member. I do a support role, but none the less I am aware of the military mindset and idea that is taught -- Its us and the enemy.
This is NOT the mindset police should have, but it is how many police view their jobs. Its a systemic problem. Its not even that cops are good or bad. It's a big broken machine that pushes new cops into a certain mindset. They are taught that doing this is how to survive or they could be killed anytime. Over the last decade many police departments have hired MPs and other military. Congress has given out sweetheart deals that increase the type of military equipment provided to police departments. Now you have an armored carrier? Well now you need to use it. And while I don't have it out for cops AT ALL, these fat fucking retards running around in old military gear and SWAT uniforms are an embarrassment and should have gotten off their asses and served in the military if they wanted to act like rambo.

Look at this shit. Fed government gave this 700,000 USD machine to them for 2000.

Nothing about this shit makes us safer. It jus cost more maintenance.


Anyways....
This American Life had an incredible two part series discussing how cops view situations:

Cops See It Differently, Part One | This American Life


Cops See It Differently, Part Two | This American Life

You get a good idea of how difficult being a cop can be, how much people fuck with you and lie in the situation. But then you also see the escalation in the system that happens without some force like a Chief of Police coming in and saying "we are stuck in a broken social mess and can't fix it, but we have to at least not make it worse".
One thing that really struck me was this one cop on there that talks about working only the night shift. He got to the point he was jaded and angry. He saw everyone in that area as scum and out to get him. Then he switched shifts. He saw familes, businesses, non-criminals. Totally changed his mindset.
It's a big circle of social mess and the aggressive militaristic cops are a symptom and cause of part of it.

 

[IschKabibble]

Relevant to Splinty's post above...


Edit: Looks like this is just the journalists afterthought from the piece that aired on HBO's Vice series a few weeks ago. Worth checking out the broadcast if you can find it.

Edit 2: For those who are interested... Vice 3x02 To Serve and Protect & Coming to America (2015) links - icefilms.info

 

[ThatOneDude]

I'm a military member. I do a support role, but none the less I am aware of the military mindset and idea that is taught -- Its us and the enemy.
This is NOT the mindset police should have, but it is how many police view their jobs. Its a systemic problem. Its not even that cops are good or bad. It's a big broken machine that pushes new cops into a certain mindset. They are taught that doing this is how to survive or they could be killed anytime. Over the last decade many police departments have hired MPs and other military. Congress has given out sweetheart deals that increase the type of military equipment provided to police departments. Now you have an armored carrier? Well now you need to use it. And while I don't have it out for cops AT ALL, these fat fucking retards running around in old military gear and SWAT uniforms are an embarrassment and should have gotten off their asses and served in the military if they wanted to act like rambo.

Look at this shit. Fed government gave this 700,000 USD machine to them for 2000.

Nothing about this shit makes us safer. It jus cost more maintenance.


Anyways....
This American Life had an incredible two part series discussing how cops view situations:

Cops See It Differently, Part One | This American Life


Cops See It Differently, Part Two | This American Life

You get a good idea of how difficult being a cop can be, how much people fuck with you and lie in the situation. But then you also see the escalation in the system that happens without some force like a Chief of Police coming in and saying "we are stuck in a broken social mess and can't fix it, but we have to at least not make it worse".
One thing that really struck me was this one cop on there that talks about working only the night shift. He got to the point he was jaded and angry. He saw everyone in that area as scum and out to get him. Then he switched shifts. He saw familes, businesses, non-criminals. Totally changed his mindset.
It's a big circle of social mess and the aggressive militaristic cops are a symptom and cause of part of it.

Agree with what you said, the militarization of our police force is fucking INSANE
The us vs them attitude cops have is fucking INSANE
The system needs to be changed

 

[lookoutawhale]

I'm a military member. I do a support role, but none the less I am aware of the military mindset and idea that is taught -- Its us and the enemy.
This is NOT the mindset police should have, but it is how many police view their jobs. Its a systemic problem. Its not even that cops are good or bad. It's a big broken machine that pushes new cops into a certain mindset. They are taught that doing this is how to survive or they could be killed anytime. Over the last decade many police departments have hired MPs and other military. Congress has given out sweetheart deals that increase the type of military equipment provided to police departments. Now you have an armored carrier? Well now you need to use it. And while I don't have it out for cops AT ALL, these fat fucking retards running around in old military gear and SWAT uniforms are an embarrassment and should have gotten off their asses and served in the military if they wanted to act like rambo.

Look at this shit. Fed government gave this 700,000 USD machine to them for 2000.

Nothing about this shit makes us safer. It jus cost more maintenance.

totally agree with you on that. MSNBC did a great piece about this during the Ferguson situation. The people wanted a peaceful march to show that they did not agree with the police action and the cops came out in full force with this swat tank and then started firing all this tear gas. They really went overboard that time. They had snipers on roofs and everything. They really escalated things and made the people of Ferguson really angry.

 

[lookoutawhale]

I just think officers should be able to control people with less than lethal force and not jump to shooting people. they are too quick to shoot people. I can guaran-damn-tee I have been to placed 10x's more dangerous than a large majority of these cops and didnt feel the need to shoot people 99.9% of the time. There are other ways to control people and handle situations that dont require someone dying.

yeah i agree i think we are on the same page here.

I dont think cops shoot treat this like some wild wild west.

From a citizens point of view, ive seen too many instances of people trying to wrestle with cops and steal their weapon.

Both sides need to chill. They are making the situation worse.

 

[Priziesthorse]

Fuck shooting people and riding around in tanks. My one buddy is a police officer at Newark Airport. He doesn't drive around in a squad car. Spends most of his day playing PS4 in their break room or writing some parking tickets. He is pulling over 200 grand a year. No rank. If its under 40 degrees, they get free soup. Thats a sweet gig.

 

[Zeph]

Relevant to Splinty's post above...


Edit: Looks like this is just the journalists afterthought from the piece that aired on HBO's Vice series a few weeks ago. Worth checking out the broadcast if you can find it.

Edit 2: For those who are interested... Vice 3x02 To Serve and Protect & Coming to America (2015) links - icefilms.info

They look like stormtroopers.

 

[Calavaro]

"Cops in the US of free America are worse than the criminals they are supposedly chasing."

If you wrote "some cops" that would mean you meant 2 or more. By just saying "cops in the US" you imply all of them.

I did not specify some, all, few or many. The number is at that point not specified.

Lets use another example.
The pies are missing = Clearly shows all of the pies to be missing.
Pies are missing = Shows that 2 or more pies are missing, but does not specify how many. At that point it's unknown how many are missing, but it's clear it more than one.
All pies are missing = Clearly all of them are missing
Some pies are missing = A fraction, large or small, of them are gone.
4 pies are missing = An exact number of pies are missing.

It is not necessary to specify a number or use a particle to specify a fraction, specially when the number and/or fraction is unknown.