General Terror attack at Mandalay Bay

[Rambo John J]

A flashing light in Vegas might be more common than a white guy in Wisconsin.

I do agree that they should follow every lead into the possibility of two shooters, but I don't think we've seen any actual evidence of that yet.

The internet is a beautiful thing and a terrible thing. One of the terrible things is that civilians now play YouTube detective every time something like this happens. There's always going to be inconsistencies in chaos. The witnesses will always get it wrong, meaning the police will always have bad information throughout the night. I'm not saying this was done by one guy with no motive, I just think speculating on these things becomes a hobby quickly.

agree 100%
I only answered the tactical question of low trajectory...that is all I am comfortable/confident about.

Waters are muddy with speculation and good luck wading thru that stuff.....


I am just gonna do me, and live my normal life and work my ass off and enjoy each day that I have.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

1st part was mentioned in an earlier post
Eye witness account are not reliable but we also can not conclude that every single one of them in inaccurate
Example.
There were reports of seeing somebody with a gun in certain areas
It is possible that a person in las Vegas who had nothing to do with the shooting pulled their gun out for protection as they were leaving the area
Not saying that happened, but it's possible and would make a witness account correct yet still be leading us in the complete wrong direction

Yes, but if all that we have indicating multiple shooters is people who were running for their life, is it really worth speculating about? The cops should definitely investigate to properly rule it out, but with our limited resources it's pretty useless to put any weight into those statements. I saw a guy get hit by a car on a highway once. Mid-interview with the police I realized that I didn't actually remember how it went down, even though when it happened it seemed to be in slow motion.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

Source?
Not saying you're wrong just haven't read that

I'll find something reliable. There's even pictures of her at the airport.

 

[Gay For Longo]

So... you're planning a conspiracy to mow down this many Americans. You're telling the people that there was a shooter on the 32nd floor. Where do you put the actual shooter? Probably not on the 4th floor, right? How stupid would you have to be to do that?

Has anybody stayed at Mandalay?
With the location of Mandalay, would the 4th floor even be high enough to get over the back of the stage?
I'm not convinced of no 2nd shooter but even that isn't making much sense to me

I'm still on the side that Stephen didn't do this and was dead before the shooting took place... from the room on 32nd floor

But the security guard being shot kind of fucks up that theory

 

[Gay For Longo]

I'll find something reliable. There's even pictures of her at the airport.

Nice
Thanks

 

[Rambo John J]

I just learned about "bump Stocks"

Not sure how old those are, but if there ever was an add on to a AR that would make the auto weapon laws obsolete that is it.

Not speculating on this event at all...just learned of them from a youtube video and was amazed at the rate of fire.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7DTjSla-O8

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

I'm still on the side that Stephen didn't do this and was dead before the shooting took place... from the room on 32nd floor

What's your evidence of this? Briefly.

 

[Gay For Longo]

Yes, but if all that we have indicating multiple shooters is people who were running for their life, is it really worth speculating about? The cops should definitely investigate to properly rule it out, but with our limited resources it's pretty useless to put any weight into those statements. I saw a guy get hit by a car on a highway once. Mid-interview with the police I realized that I didn't actually remember how it went down, even though when it happened it seemed to be in slow motion.

Yep it was pure chaos and they have to be taken with that in mind
Like you said, at this point they just are not reliable
I'm putting a little more belief into things that were said on the scanners but even the police were in a frenzy and all over the place
And they were most likely reporting things they were being told from witnesses as well

 

[Gay For Longo]

What's your evidence of this? Briefly.

No proof of it at all
More hope I guess

Edit: the video will answer the questions

 

[lueVelvet]

@lueVelvet Did his "girlfriend" live with him?
I've heard the usual response that it's impossible to live with someone that has that many weapons and not know.

Yes she did live with him but they were also rather independent people who traveled together and on their own off and on. If she wanted to visit relatives in AUS she went there. With him or not depending on when there were certain video poker tourneys etc.

I really can’t speak to whether or not she knew about the amount of weapons he had at any given time. He did like to own handguns from my experience so it wouldn’t surprise me that he had a collection at his multiple homes.

Also it’s not unheard of to have a huge collection of guns in LV. Especially for relatively wealthy people.

 

[Deleted member 1]

Not sure how old those are, but if there ever was an add on to a AR that would make the auto weapon laws obsolete that is it.

Historically it hasn't been an issue because it wasn't used at any real rate to cause death. Literally, this dense crowd and elevated position is like the only time you'd probably be better off as a shooter using it (with a goal to cause more harm). Usually you'd probably just burn through ammo faster, requiring a faster reload (pause in shooting).

Beyond that, legislative intervention has been a bit difficult since a rubber band can do this on any gun:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5XzQ1BS7gU



Or a belt loop:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-nUA52BS3c



With that said, profiting off something that intentionally moves around the intent of the law seems obvious. Will this save lives? Probably not in the big picture...statistically. But as a matter of policy, we shouldn't have these intentional devices on the market. I'd say the same for crank devices:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jif4Wo0LDX8

 

[Gay For Longo]

Sure, but my question had nothing to do with actual tactics in killing people. If you are going to lie to the American people in 2017 when everybody has a camera, and you're going to tell them that one shooter killed people from the 32nd floor of the building. It would be very stupid to put a second shooter on the 4th floor and just cross your fingers that nobody gets the video on a cell phone. That's what a lot of people miss with conspiracies- if the government is conspiring to do something like this, they don't make mistakes like that. They're actually good at this, and even I would know how dumb it would be to try to pull it off the way it's being presented in this thread.

You know this is the same government that handles the mail right?
They have a tendency to fuck up everything

 

[Gay For Longo]

Sure, but my question had nothing to do with actual tactics in killing people. If you are going to lie to the American people in 2017 when everybody has a camera, and you're going to tell them that one shooter killed people from the 32nd floor of the building. It would be very stupid to put a second shooter on the 4th floor and just cross your fingers that nobody gets the video on a cell phone. That's what a lot of people miss with conspiracies- if the government is conspiring to do something like this, they don't make mistakes like that. They're actually good at this, and even I would know how dumb it would be to try to pull it off the way it's being presented in this thread.

Can you please tell us what happened then?

 

[Gay For Longo]

I see your point...valid for sure...was just pointing out that it wasn't a tactically bad location.

All I am saying is they better have checked and locked down that room that had flashing light...worth looking into a flashing light that syncs up with gunfire at times.

A conspiracy is two people...I am not talking government...I just think everyone in the hotel should be a suspect until cleared and any room with opening windows needs to be examined forensically.

IF it was an Op...the waters would be intentionally muddied with many different oddities and theories...aka disinformation...and that is what you will see in any thread discussing this attack.

For the record I don't think this was done by the government

 

[Gay For Longo]

Is a 'black op for gun control' what you guys think would be behind a hypothetical conspiracy in this case? If it is, you'd have to simultaneously believe they planned this op with a lot of sophistication & also that they're incredibly stupid b/c gun control isn't happening for 3 years minimum.

Not what I personally believe but certain politicians are trying to capitalize of this

 

[Rambo John J]

Historically it hasn't been an issue because it wasn't used at any real rate to cause death. Literally, this dense crowd and elevated position is like the only time you'd probably be better off as a shooter using it (with a goal to cause more harm). Usually you'd probably just burn through ammo faster, requiring a faster reload (pause in shooting).

Beyond that, legislative intervention has been a bit difficult since a rubber band can do this on any gun:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5XzQ1BS7gU



Or a belt loop:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-nUA52BS3c



With that said, profiting off something that intentionally moves around the intent of the law seems obvious. Will this save lives? Probably not in the big picture...statistically. But as a matter of policy, we shouldn't have these intentional devices on the market. I'd say the same for crank devices:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jif4Wo0LDX8

wow thanks for the info

I am a single shot rifle guy...lost interest in ARs many years ago and sold em

was just amazed at how much ammo you could burn...very expensive and inaccurate it appears

 

[Gay For Longo]

A flashing light in Vegas might be more common than a white guy in Wisconsin.

I do agree that they should follow every lead into the possibility of two shooters, but I don't think we've seen any actual evidence of that yet.

The internet is a beautiful thing and a terrible thing. One of the terrible things is that civilians now play YouTube detective every time something like this happens. There's always going to be inconsistencies in chaos. The witnesses will always get it wrong, meaning the police will always have bad information throughout the night. I'm not saying this was done by one guy with no motive, I just think speculating on these things becomes a hobby quickly.

And what is wrong with that hobby as long as you don't speak as if your opinion is fact?

You're forgetting that the authorities have a history of not telling the public the truth

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

And what is wrong with that hobby as long as you don't speak as if your opinion is fact?

You're forgetting that the authorities have a history of not telling the public the truth

We are teaching each other to speculate wildly based on very little information. The idea of an "expert" is completely ravaged.

To go further, this type of thinking has led to a lack of trust in science, and law enforcement in general. We are telling everybody that they can figure anything out with a quick google search and enough time spent on /pol/. It's been extremely detrimental to our society. I don't mind the idea of questioning things, but actively searching for alternative theories in everything can be extremely dangerous, especially since most of the people who do it aren't nearly equipped to actually interpret information that they read on the internet. Look up the shooter's name on Twitter and see what people are spreading around. It causes a lot of problems.

I'm not saying you're one of the dangerous ones, btw. The speculation I've seen from you is hardly problematic in my eyes, but you're not exactly typical.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

Can you please tell us what happened then?

You must have completely missed my point.

We can't know what happened when we get all of our information from the internet. For me to say that you guys shouldn't speculate like that and that you can't know what happened, and then to offer something definitive about what REALLY happened, would be contradictory to a ridiculous level.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

You know this is the same government that handles the mail right?
They have a tendency to fuck up everything

The people who would have planned this don't work at the post office. C'mon, man. That was a simple one. I don't think the government did this, but I can tell you that they wouldn't put a second shooter on the 4th floor and tell us that there was one guy on the 32nd. I'm not going to give any more information on what I'm about to say but I have a former government source, and that's not how shit would go down.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

No proof of it at all
More hope I guess

Edit: the video will answer the questions

Why would you throw out an "I think _____ happened" with no evidence telling you that's what happened?

 

[MMAHAWK]

Yes she did live with him but they were also rather independent people who traveled together and on their own off and on. If she wanted to visit relatives in AUS she went there. With him or not depending on when there were certain video poker tourneys etc.

I really can’t speak to whether or not she knew about the amount of weapons he had at any given time. He did like to own handguns from my experience so it wouldn’t surprise me that he had a collection at his multiple homes.

Also it’s not unheard of to have a huge collection of guns in LV. Especially for relatively wealthy people.

Yeah I have no problems with the guns and understand Poole have a bunch of them.

It was more a question of it was known he had them. I believe your FIL stated he wasn't aware he had any. This has been run with on west coast radio as some kind of evidence of covering for him.

 

[Gay For Longo]

We are teaching each other to speculate wildly based on very little information. The idea of an "expert" is completely ravaged.

To go further, this type of thinking has led to a lack of trust in science, and law enforcement in general. We are telling everybody that they can figure anything out with a quick google search and enough time spent on /pol/. It's been extremely detrimental to our society. I don't mind the idea of questioning things, but actively searching for alternative theories in everything can be extremely dangerous, especially since most of the people who do it aren't nearly equipped to actually interpret information that they read on the internet. Look up the shooter's name on Twitter and see what people are spreading around. It causes a lot of problems.

I'm not saying you're one of the dangerous ones, btw. The speculation I've seen from you is hardly problematic in my eyes, but you're not exactly typical.

Incorrect
We are not teaching people to speculate wildly, we are allowing people to look at things with an open mind instead of being dictated to

Also why should we trust cops?
I like cops, 3 of my best friends are cops, 1 who is a detective
I know from them and personal experience that not everything is told to the public
I don't trust a cop anymore than I trust somebody on the street unless I have a relationship with that officer and have developed trust in them

Also not telling people they can figure everything out, telling people that when you see something odd, it's better to point it out rather than be a good sheep and let the authorities tell you everything they feel you need to know

The last part I agree with you actually
There are a lot of people who just take all these crazy ideas as fact and that's just as bad as being the person stating this stuff as fact imo

And yes, those people are a serious danger and make everybody look bad
That's why I'm keeping an eye online, pol, deep web sites, Twitter to make sure none of those fucks are trying anything against @lueVelvet or his family

You must have completely missed my point.

We can't know what happened when we get all of our information from the internet. For me to say that you guys shouldn't speculate like that and that you can't know what happened, and then to offer something definitive about what REALLY happened, would be contradictory to a ridiculous level.

You're good
It's like when you set a mouse trap and wake up the next morning and the cheese is gone and the trap hasn't gone off
Then you pick it up and it goes off in your hand lol

 

[Gay For Longo]

The people who would have planned this don't work at the post office. C'mon, man. That was a simple one. I don't think the government did this, but I can tell you that they wouldn't put a second shooter on the 4th floor and tell us that there was one guy on the 32nd. I'm not going to give any more information on what I'm about to say but I have a former government source, and that's not how shit would go down.

It's an old saying
I know it wouldn't be the same people and I agree this wasn't government, but honestly i don't give them very much credit
Now I don't know anybody in cia or fbi so hopefully they're better than the rest

 

[Rambo John J]

@Andrewsimar Palhardass "this type of thinking has led to a lack of trust in science, and law enforcement in general."

Neither has shown to be 100% trustworthy, so....


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjmjqlOPd6A