GSP, Tim Kennedy, Cain Velasquez, TJ Dillashaw, Bjorn Rebney & Donald Cerrone "come together
- Thread starter ShatsBassoon
- Start date
These guys just gained massive respect from me. It's hard enough for someone like GSP to do it but for active UFC fighter? Wow
I will support this 100%
I wonder why bjorn said that they will focus on the UFC and no other promotion? My best guess is no one is nearly as profitable as the UFC... at least in the states
I will support this 100%
I wonder why bjorn said that they will focus on the UFC and no other promotion? My best guess is no one is nearly as profitable as the UFC... at least in the states
Yeah the gap is so big that they aren't really comparable, plus I doubt the other organizations could survive under what this association will be looking to receive from the UFC.
If the ufcs business practices so unfair that they need change they way they do business it should be across the board. If the other promotions couldn't survive then they shouldn't be in the business. What's good should be good for all and what's unacceptable should be the same.
That's not how business works. This reminds me of a Chris Rock joke about OJ killing his wife because of alimony.
"If you make 10 million and your wife wants 5, that's alright you ain't starvin.... But if you make 30 thousand... and she wants 15... you may have to kill her!"
The other organizations simply can't put on a show and pay the fighters what the UFC can afford to pay them percentage-wise. It sounds good, but it's unreasonably simple and utopian in my opinion.
But it's about more then money. Bellator out bid on benson, davis, and rory all top 5ish guys and all within the last year or so. Their cable numbers are comparable. Wsof has a network television deal. Ufc is absolutely the clear number one company but they are still competitors in an open market. Putting restrictions and extra financial burdens on any single one of them gives their competitors an unfair advantage to compete in that same marketplace.
Also did cowboy really fuck up his eye?
If he didn't, I'm slightly concerned that he won't let that part go and is taking that acting role way too seriously
That awkward moment when King Mo applies for membership...
Mo: "Yeah, about that dick rider comment Bjorn...that was just business right?"
I know for sure that Davis didn't get offered much, if anything, by the UFC. That's been reported since he signed, with some MMA journalists saying he literally didn't have a choice. Similar situation for Benson. Rory's nose is destroyed and I think he got some up-front money to sign, something that the UFC doesn't really do, so he had to go that route.
You'd be right if the gap wasn't so big. The rumor is that Bellator breaks even. I have heard that from multiple people with knowledge of the subject. The UFC makes hundreds of millions of dollars a year. You can't do blanket regulations, especially since one company has a borderline monopoly.
I noticed this too. I wrote it off as a troll initially but he's got the bandage in the pic from today, and he also had one in an instagram pic a few days after the eye video.
They've been investigated a few times now and shown to not have a monopoly. While the ufc is clearly in the lead. Giving them extra costs and regulations you don't give their competition unfairly allows those competitors to gain market share and further cut into the ufcs revenues and profits. Then it's still harder to compete and all the while still hampered in a way their comoetitors are not. That's not an open fair market.
If you want fighters to be paid more in the UFC without bankrupting nearly all (and I mean 100%) of the smaller competitors, this is the only way to do it. I understand your point, as it might not be completely fair, but if you regulate the smaller guys like they want to regulate the UFC we will be inching closer and closer to a monopoly.
Which is how every other sport in America is run. If they weren't monopolies it'd be crippling to hamper one business whilst they are still in any sort of competitive marketplace.
Fighting does not work like MLB. It's not the same thing. MMA, firstly, has severe physical consequences and is not something where developmental leagues exist like school teams and little league. Also, MLB has an incredibly extensive minor league program which spans across the globe. These guys all have places to develop their talents throughout life. Fighting isn't like that. Where will the UFC get their fighters if there are no smaller organizations to develop them? They can't recruit at colleges because college MMA doesn't exist. The situations just aren't comparable. MMA dies without smaller organizations, and the smaller organizations die if you apply the same pay standards to them as you do to the UFC. The only other solution is the UFC actually controlling all of the smaller organizations as well, but that would mean that one company owns an entire sport.
It's what amateur mma should be for. It's the way boxing works. Boxing has the same regulations across the board. With a ton of promotions all required to meet them. I'm saying if you put regulations on one company it allows their competitors to grow and take over unfairly. Take Conor for example, if the ufc gets forced into paying insurance, retirement, plus who knows what else. His fight purse goes down. Bellator could offer him more per fight because they don't have to adhere to the same rules as the ufc. They would be able to negotiate and steal top talent unfairly because it's not a level playing field. Going after one org is not the way to fix things.
Boxing is a completely different model. Who is the UFC of boxing? Also, would you rather MMA be ran the same way as boxing? I think that would be terrible for the sport.
Why would Conor's fight purse go down? This association is not asking the UFC to take a bit of their purses to pay for retirement and all that. They are saying that the UFC doesn't pay a large enough percentage to their fighters. If you think about it, and they put an actual percentage of profit as a mandate to go to the fighters, they will be paying more than they pay now. I feel like I am confused about that though because your explanation goes completely contrary to that. This isn't a situation where they are looking for the rich fighters to make sacrifices to pay for the struggling ones- they are asking that the UFC pay all fighters their fair share. This will cut into the UFC's profits, but I am not sure why you think that would make Conor's purse go down.
You are severely underestimating how big of a gap there is between what the UFC can afford and what Bellator can afford. Your idea would work in a perfect society where the UFC is the top dog but the rest of the organizations are killing it too, albeit slightly less. This is not the current landscape. In an homage to the movie Moneyball, the structure looks more like this.
---------UFC---------
---------50 feet of crap------
---------Bellator---------
---------50 more feet of crap-------
---------WSOF---------
---------Everyone else-------
@Kingtony87 Also, in terms of your ammy MMA comment, do you really suggest that guys who would otherwise be paid for their early fights do them all for free until the UFC calls? I really think that would be borderline catastrophic for the sport. Boxing in the short term is a much less demanding sport. It's easier to do for free, and it's a necessity because there are way more boxers and there is no UFC of boxing.Good talk, by the way. I've enjoyed exploring all of this.
Because forcing one organization to cover more allows competitors to offer more without paying the same actual price. It's pretty simple concept. Ufc and bellator and one fc may be far apart but they are still competing companies. Forcing the big org to pay for testing, retirement, increased insurance and all of these other things will allow those competitors to offer more $$ drawing talent. This will in turn hurt the ufc. Despite them being far apart it hampers one org giving the others unfair advantages in negotiations. It means those other orgs can negotiate tv deals for cheaper and pay fighters more because they don't have the same expense. it is not and should not be how any free market is run.
I'm not suggesting it be only the ufc calling. There's several orgs that have too talent in them currently. Ufc, bellator, wsof, rizin, one fc. Putting regulations on the ufc only will only harm their brand allowing others to grow not adhering to the same regulations.
Good talk, by the way. I've enjoyed exploring all of this.
If you're espn or any big network do you pay for bellator who's going to cost less with "comparable" talent. (who's talent is only going to get better if they don't have the same regulations) or the ufc who's going to be charging more because they have far more expenses to cover.
I'm in favor of an association and better benefits for fighters. But it has be across the board. Going after one org will severely hamper their ability to compete with other organizations.
The brand is strong enough to survive, and thrive. I guarantee it.
Bellator gets decent cable ratings, but the buzz around Bellator is so miniscule when compared to the UFC that there is no way that the big networks will see Bellator as a worthy replacement. Go outside and ask 20 people who Michael Chandler is. Same with MVP, King Mo, literally any Bellator fighter that didn't get famous in the UFC. If three of those people know who any of those guys are, I would be really surprised.
And the current construct severely hampers the other organizations' ability to compete with the UFC. If you are going to tout doing something that helps all of MMA and makes things fair, you must also consider the fact that the gap between the UFC and the rest of the organizations can use a bit of closing. If you regulate the small orgs as much as you regulate the UFC, those other organizations will die. They're barely hanging on with no standardized pay structure. If you are going to regulate them the same way that you regulate the UFC, expect most if not all of them to die. You say you don't want that, well that's what will happen.
Ufc has thrived despite a level playing field. They invested heavily into the sport going tens of millions of debt at one point. They took the risk, they got the pay off. No other has come close to investing the same.
You may think they survive but that's not thr reality of business. They ufc is the top dog now, and yes by a large margin. But if the ufc is forced to pay out and cover things that greatly exceed their competitors in a free market it will give the competition an unfair advantage to negotiate with top talent and for broadcasting rights. Over the course of time it would greatly damage and diminish the ufcs ability to compete with competing companies in a fair and open marketplace.
Any sort of deal or agreement like this needs to extend across the board.
There is absolutely nothint stopping bellator and viacom from investing heavily into their product the way zuffa did with the ufc to grow and be an equal competitor with the ufc. That will be even easier if they aren't subject to the same expenses and regulations.