Wait.. how does an association hurt the UFC's bargaining power? Wouldn't it make it better, considering if this happens they will be the most taken care of MMA fighters on the planet? Why would Bellator gain power in this scenario?
GSP, Tim Kennedy, Cain Velasquez, TJ Dillashaw, Bjorn Rebney & Donald Cerrone "come together
- Thread starter ShatsBassoon
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These situations aren't comparable, simply because the UFC basically invented the sport. There wasn't someone out there already making money when Zuffa did what they did, which is what allowed them to grow exponentially. Had a different, established fighting organization existed at the time, I sincerely doubt we see the Fertittas fork over the cash, and we never have a UFC.
Do you think Conor, or Jones, or several of the big names that sell care about the benefits of other fighters??? Honestly. Bellator if inclined could offer those guys more money and still run their orgs for less because they don't have to pay for all the extra. If you put heavy regulations on any one org it's only going to benefit the others.
Pride was doing pretty damn well back then.
I'm not sure Conor or Jones' pay goes down with this new situation. What makes you think that?
Also, even if it did, we are talking about the bargaining power of two guys who make in the millions per fight. Bellator can't afford Conor McGregor, believe me.
They came about when the UFC had been around for 4 years, and they are in a completely different country, and the TV landscape is completely different now. It was niche back then. There wasn't a globally established organization. I know you aren't comparing the early days of Pride to the UFC now. You can't be.
- Jan 15, 2015
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@Kingtony87 quick question. Do you think they won't go after these other orgs once they are profitable enough to survive? I can see them doing it.
I was thinking the same thing. That's the only way to get them all and not absolutely destroy the other organizations.
Bellator sure as fuck could, hbo, or showtime could. All of those companies would be able to negotiate from a position of unfair advantage because they wouldn't have the same expendes
If the ufc has to pay Conor purse, then some of what he generates to fighter retirement, insurance, testing, any other increased regulation snd company b doesn't have those same expenses they can pay the "same" for far less..
Its pretty mind boggling how you don't see that. It's fairly simple economics.
They are profitable enough to survive currently.
- Jan 15, 2015
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I doubt it. We all have heard of wsof and their money problems. Bellaton doesn't have all this money coming in from video games, ppv, and merch like the ufc. This would kill small orgs like kotc.
The hilarious thing is you citing simple economics while also saying that the smaller organizations can afford to pay the same share that the UFC will be asked to pay. If anything is mind boggling, it's that. Why do you think WSOF has had cards at the local YMCA?
You are also only talking about Conor, and you mentioned Jones. Showtime and HBO can already afford to pay more than what the UFC is willing to give Conor. Why don't they? Why hasn't Conor bounced out to fight elsewhere? It's because 1. There's no fucking way that Bellator can afford Conor McGregor and actually get a return on their investment (no PPV or streaming service model) and 2. There are no high ranked fighters that aren't under contract with somebody, so Showtime and HBO are out the window. He would have to time something up with a different fighter where they both bounce at the same time for a big money grab.
So, let me ask you this, why are they only focusing on the UFC? Do you think they only care about the UFC's fighters, or do you think that they may agree with me that it wouldn't work to mandate a base pay and all of that for the smaller organizations? I have a feeling they've looked further into it than you or I.
Where are you getting this information? All of the MMA journalists that I have heard speak about this say the same thing- Bellator and WSOF might break even or make a bit of money, but it really isn't much at all. I'm curious as to what makes you so sure.
The ufc built that. Over years and after taking massive risks and loss. Bellator has the backers to invest in their brand and grow it in the same way. They already have a decent amount of top ten guys, let's say they pick up gaethe and askren again.
You can't one day claim they are competitors and hope they steal fighters from the ufc and the next give them unfair advantages to negotiate fighter and broadcast deals with.
That's called surviving.
Because it's about money plain and simple. If it was truly about fighter safety and longevity it would be across the board. Their are fighters making a damn decent living fighting for bellator, one fc, and rizin right now. Bigfoot just got his biggest pay day ever. How can the ufc compete long term with organization that can attract talent and negotiate broadcast deals for less expense. That's not how the open market works.
If this was truly about what's best for fighter it's be sportwide. Then those orgs who couldn't offer what fighters are saying is fair and they deserve will fall to the wayside leading only those who can truly take care of fighters.
Just listened to the whole thing.
"Industry Redefining MMA Announcement" feat. Georges St. Pierre + more - YouTube
"Industry Redefining MMA Announcement" feat. Georges St. Pierre + more - YouTube
View: https://twitter.com/LeslieSmith_GF/status/804097240998375425
Kind of agree with Leslie here. I think Valerie Letourneau demonstrated that women and men sometimes have different issues and both need representation.
This is all coming straight from my ass, but I'll offer some food for thought. I think they are targeting ufc because of the discrepancy between bellator/other orgs and UFC in regards to percent athletes make compared to revenue.
Didn't bjorn say while he was with bellator, athletes we're paid around 50% of their revenue? I don't think UFC is anywhere near that. something like 10% I think?
I think what they will be after is establishing a fighter pay regulatory commission that ensures a minimum payout percentage closer to 50%. they will probably try to make a good case for legislation and once passed, if at all, there will have to be an entity to implement and oversee fighter pay and fine promotions not meeting guidelines.
I think the consensus is once the UFC cooperates, others will fall in line or die on the vine. this would make it fair across the board to all orgs, especially ones like bellator, currently paying athletes higher percentages of their revenue to stay competitive in the market.
This is what Bjorn said as highlighted in a different thread...
"Rebney says they want to get back what they lost, get 50 cents on the dollar instead of 8 cents, negotiate of a CBA comparable to MLB etc.
Rebney says they want to negotiate a collective-bargaining agreement with the UFC, plus go from 8% revenue for fighters to 50%.
Rebney says association is looking for a settlement to right past wrongs and drive UFC revenue split up to 50%"
So he's outlined what it is that they're after. the 50% split as well as settlements from the past, which is a whole other topic, but will fall into the hands of this new commission they're putting together.
"Rebney says they want to get back what they lost, get 50 cents on the dollar instead of 8 cents, negotiate of a CBA comparable to MLB etc.
Rebney says they want to negotiate a collective-bargaining agreement with the UFC, plus go from 8% revenue for fighters to 50%.
Rebney says association is looking for a settlement to right past wrongs and drive UFC revenue split up to 50%"
So he's outlined what it is that they're after. the 50% split as well as settlements from the past, which is a whole other topic, but will fall into the hands of this new commission they're putting together.
Also, I don't think that these demands will be achieved without government legislation. which is why they've made note that they haven't even contacted the UFC about this. they're probably in contact with law makers and any dealing with UFC unnecessary.
That's my take on the whole thing.
That's my take on the whole thing.
I had the same thought. Since the other organizations make substantially smaller profits than the UFC, there's a chance that they already give a vastly bigger percentage to the fighters. Actually, it's probably a certainty. The problems that the fighters in the UFC face are unique because the UFC makes so much damn money.