Jones looked like shit tonight

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Hwoarang

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Oct 22, 2015
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so why the fuck would you give someone a round based off damage from the first?
I personally wouldn't. As stated, it was a bullshit decision and i thought thiago easily won Rd 5 (and the fight). But 2 judges didn't.
Furthermore, what damage did Jones do in round 1?
None. Thiago damaged his own knee when he tried kicking. And this damaged knee is what I'm talking about.
My explanation of why 2 judges gave Rd 5 to Jones was because all of Rd 5, despite thiago getting in the better strikes, he could barely stand and spent the whole fifth round looking like he wouldn't be able to finish the fight, like the knee was going to give out at any moment, and in the eyes of two of the judges (not mine) , that was most probably what caused them to give Rd 5 to Jones (well that or Dana's chequebook).
 

homo fagit

Writer, and adventurer
Jul 17, 2018
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I had it a draw in a Shit fight.

Jones has terrible hands, he can only use them to ward off opponents. His kicks mostly serve the same purpose. His striking is best when mixed with wrestling. He is far from an elite kick boxer.
He showed a good jab against Gustafsson in their rematch which surprised me
 

Wild

Zi Nazi
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Dec 31, 2014
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Thigo dominated round 5 and got all the significant strikes and easily should have won that round. However his leg kept buckling and he was struggling to stand that whole round and it constantly looked like his leg was going to permenantly give or he was about to be swamped on and and destroyed. So the judges just saw he was lucky to make it out of the round and gave jones the round based on damage from round 1.
Probably a valid explanation. He easily won Rd 1, Rd 2 was close but he landed more significant strikes, and Jones did absolutely jack shit in Rd 5 while Thiago landed some nice kicks and punches.
 

D241

Banned
Jan 14, 2015
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I had it a draw in a Shit fight.

Jones has terrible hands, he can only use them to ward off opponents. His kicks mostly serve the same purpose. His striking is best when mixed with wrestling. He is far from an elite kick boxer.
YES!! I love it when people aren't afraid to call a close fight a draw. No one can tell me Santos established an undeniable advantage and no one can tell me Jones established an undeniable advantage either.

I won't say he is far from an elite kick boxer though. I don't recall Jones ever being outstruck in a fight besides his 2nd fight against Cormier and Jones got the fight finished in the stand up realm, albeit training extra hard due to cheating but still....
 

Sheepdog

Protecting America from excessive stool loitering
Dec 1, 2015
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YES!! I love it when people aren't afraid to call a close fight a draw. No one can tell me Santos established an undeniable advantage and no one can tell me Jones established an undeniable advantage either.

I won't say he is far from an elite kick boxer though. I don't recall Jones ever being outstruck in a fight besides his 2nd fight against Cormier and Jones got the fight finished in the stand up realm, albeit training extra hard due to cheating but still....
Jones has great kicks, knees, elbows and knows how to use his reach advantage (in part through cheating by constantly threatening eye pokes). He is also a constant takedown threat, which dictates how other guys fight him.

So he is a great MMA striker.

But his boxing has always been pretty average. In a pure kickboxing fight, he would likely get exposed based on this weakness.
 

D241

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Jan 14, 2015
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Jones has great kicks, knees, elbows and knows how to use his reach advantage (in part through cheating by constantly threatening eye pokes). He is also a constant takedown threat, which dictates how other guys fight him.

So he is a great MMA striker.

But his boxing has always been pretty average. In a pure kickboxing fight, he would likely get exposed based on this weakness.
I do feel that what perhaps some people on this thread are not giving enough credit to Jones for is Jones ability to manage distance. Regardless of your height/reach distance is key and he's been successful against all body types.

Plus if you ever watch one of Jones' fights purely to analyze Jones, you'll notice Jones often times switches stances and when you try to remember what the first strike he throws when stance is changed, you'll find that he will never throw the same strike again from that opening stance change. He'll throw spinning attacks but it's always coming from a different stance or angle.

Your point about wrestling I feel is a valid one though.
 

sparkuri

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I can't see how anyone scores 5 for Jones.
1 & 2 looked like rounds belonging to Santos, with Jones clearly taking 4 & 3.
This was a fairly easy fight to score.
Scorecards should be snapshotted right before the beginning of each round and held by some type of third party.
Santos won.
 

Silverball

Member
Feb 24, 2015
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Rounds 1 and 2 were Santos, but it seemed like Jones was waiting to see how Thiago's cardio would hold up, perhaps measuring him still, etc. Rounds 3 and 4 were Jones' rounds, but not in the decisive manner most of us were expecting. Round 5 was Santos, on one leg, and yet somehow the mystique of Jon Jones won him that round (and others) in many people's eyes. Goofy sport at times, and even goofier judging. Post USADA, Jones has looked his best in fights where he's tested positive, but I do believe he'd beat most of these guys on most nights regardless, albeit in a less impressive fashion.
 

D241

Banned
Jan 14, 2015
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I can't see how anyone scores 5 for Jones.
1 & 2 looked like rounds belonging to Santos, with Jones clearly taking 4 & 3.
This was a fairly easy fight to score.
Scorecards should be snapshotted right before the beginning of each round and held by some type of third party.
Santos won.

Alistair Overeem vs Frank Mir.

Both were on final fights of their contracts and didn't want to lose.

Overeem dominated first 2 rounds and back petaled and coasted in Rd 3. Ao EASILY could have finished Mir but instead chose to play it safe and get an anticlimactic decision win.

Do you see how revealing scorecards could have flaws?
 

sparkuri

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Alistair Overeem vs Frank Mir.

Both were on final fights of their contracts and didn't want to lose.

Overeem dominated first 2 rounds and back petaled and coasted in Rd 3. Ao EASILY could have finished Mir but instead chose to play it safe and get an anticlimactic decision win.

Do you see how revealing scorecards could have flaws?
I didn't say reveal, I said held by an unbiased third party.
What that means, is a different level of accountability.
I'm not sure how it's currently done, But from seeing scratched out scorecards numerous times in the past, my feeling is that the judges aren't accountable to anyone from round to round, thus snapshots so that that round is definitively in some sort of database, not where they can go back and change it.

They should also be 30゚ separated from each other, With no communicative capability during the fight digitally or otherwise.
 

Rambo John J

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2 suspect "wins" in a row

Add in the downer decision vs Smith

Is he fading? Is he old? Testing?

7 of last 9 are decisions.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

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Jul 22, 2015
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kinda makes up for the Hamill debacle where the ref asked a deaf guy if he was alright and waved it off after getting no response
Except a lot fans seem to think that needs to be turned over and that he's really undefeated.
 
M

member 603

Guest
2 suspect "wins" in a row

Add in the downer decision vs Smith

Is he fading? Is he old? Testing?

7 of last 9 are decisions.
Here's the thing people forget... Jones is a Greg Jackson disciple, and like Greg's other fighters (look at GSP), they are methodical to their approach to the fight they're in, against the specific opponent they are fighting. They look to exploit their opponents weakness, and continue doing the (most of the time) one thing to their opponent to usually make it a long drawn out fight.

Where Jones benefited in the years past, is that a lot more fighters went after him in the fight, quite often playing right into finishes.... Nowadays (as the case of his last two fights) his opponents are more methodical in their approach to Jones. Jones game plan has been the same for years.... Either tie up his opponents hands (utilizing his long reach), then come over the top via elbow, OR use that teep to the knee/leg (with his long legs) and destroy an opponents base, leaving them susceptible to trips and/or throws where he can ground and pound to victory. Like I mentioned earlier, that plan worked best when guys ran at him, or went straight back in their movement. In Jones last two fights, Santos and Reyes were both good at utilizing lateral movement to set up their striking attacks, and force Jon to have to reposition his feet.

The last factor is something that Carbazel @Carbazel and MMAHAWK @MMAHAWK discussed in their podcast a few weeks back... Jones historically has struggled with guys who are similar body types to himself, and/or guys who are taller than him. I believe that Reyes height, body type, lateral movement, and the fact that he didn't rush Jon (playing into his game) is why Jon struggled so mightily in that fight, and also why his typical Jackson camp "point fight to win" approach, made him look worse as well. Jon is still an amazing athlete, and can still pull off highlight reel stuff if the opportunity presents itself...... That said, who knows also what the lasting effect of that steroid usage did to him.
 

Rambo John J

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Here's the thing people forget... Jones is a Greg Jackson disciple, and like Greg's other fighters (look at GSP), they are methodical to their approach to the fight they're in, against the specific opponent they are fighting. They look to exploit their opponents weakness, and continue doing the (most of the time) one thing to their opponent to usually make it a long drawn out fight.

Where Jones benefited in the years past, is that a lot more fighters went after him in the fight, quite often playing right into finishes.... Nowadays (as the case of his last two fights) his opponents are more methodical in their approach to Jones. Jones game plan has been the same for years.... Either tie up his opponents hands (utilizing his long reach), then come over the top via elbow, OR use that teep to the knee/leg (with his long legs) and destroy an opponents base, leaving them susceptible to trips and/or throws where he can ground and pound to victory. Like I mentioned earlier, that plan worked best when guys ran at him, or went straight back in their movement. In Jones last two fights, Santos and Reyes were both good at utilizing lateral movement to set up their striking attacks, and force Jon to have to reposition his feet.

The last factor is something that Carbazel @Carbazel and MMAHAWK @MMAHAWK discussed in their podcast a few weeks back... Jones historically has struggled with guys who are similar body types to himself, and/or guys who are taller than him. I believe that Reyes height, body type, lateral movement, and the fact that he didn't rush Jon (playing into his game) is why Jon struggled so mightily in that fight, and also why his typical Jackson camp "point fight to win" approach, made him look worse as well. Jon is still an amazing athlete, and can still pull off highlight reel stuff if the opportunity presents itself...... That said, who knows also what the lasting effect of that steroid usage did to him.
great breakdown
agree with every word

love that podcast also, haven't missed an ep
 

SongExotic2

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Here's the thing people forget... Jones is a Greg Jackson disciple, and like Greg's other fighters (look at GSP), they are methodical to their approach to the fight they're in, against the specific opponent they are fighting. They look to exploit their opponents weakness, and continue doing the (most of the time) one thing to their opponent to usually make it a long drawn out fight.

Where Jones benefited in the years past, is that a lot more fighters went after him in the fight, quite often playing right into finishes.... Nowadays (as the case of his last two fights) his opponents are more methodical in their approach to Jones. Jones game plan has been the same for years.... Either tie up his opponents hands (utilizing his long reach), then come over the top via elbow, OR use that teep to the knee/leg (with his long legs) and destroy an opponents base, leaving them susceptible to trips and/or throws where he can ground and pound to victory. Like I mentioned earlier, that plan worked best when guys ran at him, or went straight back in their movement. In Jones last two fights, Santos and Reyes were both good at utilizing lateral movement to set up their striking attacks, and force Jon to have to reposition his feet.

The last factor is something that Carbazel @Carbazel and MMAHAWK @MMAHAWK discussed in their podcast a few weeks back... Jones historically has struggled with guys who are similar body types to himself, and/or guys who are taller than him. I believe that Reyes height, body type, lateral movement, and the fact that he didn't rush Jon (playing into his game) is why Jon struggled so mightily in that fight, and also why his typical Jackson camp "point fight to win" approach, made him look worse as well. Jon is still an amazing athlete, and can still pull off highlight reel stuff if the opportunity presents itself...... That said, who knows also what the lasting effect of that steroid usage did to him.
Jones has defeated everyone put in front of him. Including the longest list of ex lhw champions I know of. He's definitely slowing down tho, but that happens to them all, heck, 15 years or so back BJ Penn won a fight. Shows you how times change.

Jones is the greatest ever but he's not at his peak that's for sure.
 

Jehannum

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Jones has defeated everyone put in front of him. Including the longest list of ex lhw champions I know of. He's definitely slowing down tho, but that happens to them all, heck, 15 years or so back BJ Penn won a fight. Shows you how times change.

Jones is the greatest ever but he's not at his peak that's for sure.
Matt Hamill is right there in front of him but I suppose Jones having his eyes closed means it doesn't count.