Let's settle this once and for all - Tyson vs Ali

Discussion in 'The Off-topic Lounge' started by Lord Vutulaki, Dec 22, 2015.

  1. Lord Vutulaki

    Lord Vutulaki Banned

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    Prime vs Prime

    Who you got and why?

    I got tyson due to a level of athleticism never before seen in the HW division coupled with a style made for fighting a boxer. If it gets past the 5th Tyson isnt looking so good but I reckon he catches Ali with a blinding combo in the 3rd or 4th.
     
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  2. Bozy

    Bozy OOHH YOU DIDNT KNOW!?

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    Ali would try taking punches and wearing Tyson out. We all know. That a prime Mike Tyson? No one is taking his shots.

    Tyson. First round KO.
     
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  3. Splinty

    Splinty Shake 'em off
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    [​IMG]

    Disagree to a point...

    Look, I'm wading right in here. I am aware how this debate goes. Ali and Tyson really set people off.

    Tyson is my favorite boxer and I have a bit of an obsession with the beautiful disaster that is his life.

    Tyson would probably win this fight, but Round one? I doubt that.

    Ali was two boxers before and after his suspension. The young Ali with a speed advantage could make mistakes and play. Think RJJ, just getting away with a style that would betray him as the years came on. But Ali, unlike others, got smarter and adapted. His most legendary fights seemed to come as he got slower and his fight IQ got better. Its that Ali that would be the hardest fight for Tyson.

    Early Ali hung a long jab out on his tip toes to control the range. He fought with the opponent on the outside and could generate serious power from that range. Ali was never beat in the first 10 rounds and that was only getting stopped at the very end of his career.

    So can Ali take a punch? Absolutely. At a legendary level. If he can eat them from a young Joe foreman, he can eat them from Tyson.

    But this is where I agree things change.
    Tyson could walk around a jab like no one else in history. His bending and bobbing as he came in to explode from that peekaboo guard is incredible..

    [​IMG]

    Tyson risks are getting frustrated in a loose clinch that stifled his movement and a chin that isn't up for return fire.
    Ali either loses due to punching down on Tyson who has a movement like no one else or relying on a jab that won't work for the same reason.

    But this isn't a fight that ends in round one. This has greater risks of looking like Holmes/Tyson with the faster power puncher slowly wearing down his opponent. But I can't imagine it will be Tyson just walking in with his famed 2 minute knockout routine.
     
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  4. Bozy

    Bozy OOHH YOU DIDNT KNOW!?

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    Everything's you just said is not argumentative at All from my view. I agree. I just see Cus saying the same thing. Especially with Ali's long Jab. I see him telling Tyson to go in and throw hooks to the body then hooks to the head. Over and over. I don't think Ali could take those punches.

    Yes Foreman had bone crushing power too. But Tysons came one after the other. Without time to recoup.

    I hate Ali. So I won't pull for him, even if I know I am wrong.
     
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  5. Splinty

    Splinty Shake 'em off
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    Well now we need answers!
     
  6. Lord Vutulaki

    Lord Vutulaki Banned

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    WAT????
     
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  7. CavemanBJJ

    CavemanBJJ Active Member

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    Ali could take punishment, it would look like the Lennox Lewis, but with Ali putting on more of a show.

    Tyson was devastating but he was a mental midget in the ring.Ali would take advantage of that
     
  8. Bozy

    Bozy OOHH YOU DIDNT KNOW!?

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    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Lord Vutulaki

    Lord Vutulaki Banned

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    Yeah okay but why do you hate Ali? you havent gotten THAT caught up in the anti muslim BS in the MSM right?

    He is no relation to the prophet I assure you.
     
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  10. Lord Vutulaki

    Lord Vutulaki Banned

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    Prime Tyson has Cus in his corner acting as his CPU between rounds, Lewis couldnt touch a Cus frate traned Tyson, Ali yeah maybe in the later rounds

    Just my humble opinion
     
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  11. Bozy

    Bozy OOHH YOU DIDNT KNOW!?

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    He was a draft dodging piece of shit punk. He didn't want to stand up and sere his country. But he can live in it and reap all of its benefits? No thanks. Elvis had the balls to serve. And he was a singer.

    My hate for Ali has nothing to do with his in ring ability.
     
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  12. Lord Vutulaki

    Lord Vutulaki Banned

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    I think its pretty evident that the Vietnam war was bullshit and we had no right going over there.

    And sure Ali can reap the benefits of being american, he gave a lot to the country and inspired many, dropping napalm on innocent Vietnamese civilians isnt the all that inspiring. LOL @ Elvis what exactly did he do over there again? What were Elvis' people's rights in america at the time vs Ali's?

    Anyways thats for another thread yeah, thanks for your input we got more people pulling for my man Tyson than I expected n=3 haha
     
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  13. Bozy

    Bozy OOHH YOU DIDNT KNOW!?

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    Don't be mad that Elvis was more than a man than Ali could ever be.
     
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  14. Lord Vutulaki

    Lord Vutulaki Banned

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    haha okay you got me

    Should have made a "Elvis vs Tyson" thread silly me
     
  15. Bozy

    Bozy OOHH YOU DIDNT KNOW!?

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    That's silly. Everyone know Elvis would Shake Rattle and Roll all over Tyson.
     
  16. Lord Vutulaki

    Lord Vutulaki Banned

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    and if Tyson was to ever step on his blue suede shoes....?
     
  17. Bozy

    Bozy OOHH YOU DIDNT KNOW!?

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    He'd be laid out In the Heartbreak Hotel
     
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  18. Splinty

    Splinty Shake 'em off
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    The shit talking is interesting X factor. Tyson notoriously cried in an early match from shit talking. Guy was wound up real tight and needed an outlet.

    Could Tyson handle months of Ali in his head? Maybe, maybe not.
     
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  19. Robbie Hart

    Robbie Hart I apparently look like a Jewish accountant

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    As Chael said on his latest podcast, backed up by Matt brown, Tyson wasn't even the number 2 heavyweight in his time......he ducked Holyfield and then when he wasn't in his "prime" and lost to Holyfield, there was all of this "he's past his prime and Holyfield is picking on him when he's older".....yet, holyfield was older than him when they fought.....Lewis was also better than Tyson.........you're welcome.
     
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  20. CavemanBJJ

    CavemanBJJ Active Member

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    Cus was great for sure

    Ali had angie Dundee, also one of the best trainers of all time
     
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  21. Splinty

    Splinty Shake 'em off
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    But this isn't about better or career. And styles make fights.

    Ali is a top 3 boxed ever. Tyson is not due to career trajectory.

    We are talking a very specific fight between two boxers.
     
  22. Splinty

    Splinty Shake 'em off
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    But that's just crazy talk.
     
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  23. Splinty

    Splinty Shake 'em off
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  24. Ted Williams' head

    Ted Williams' head It's freezing in here!

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    So prime vs prime I think we can all agree is 22 year old Mike Tyson who fought Spinks vs. let's say 24 year old Ali who fought Cleveland Williams, anywhere around '66-'67. Tyson has maybe 5-10lbs on him, Ali obviously has the height and reach. Both have iron chins.

    I go with Tyson by mid-late stoppage or UD. One of the biggest mistakes people make is lumping Tyson in with other punchers Ali faced like Foreman, Liston, Williams, Shavers, ect, and point to the fact that Ali beat those guys and was able to absorb their punches. Totally different fighters. Tyson had physical stats and a style more similar to Frazier, and with all respect to Frazier (who will always be one of my favourites of all time), Tyson had the advantage over Frazier in pretty much every category. Hit harder, had better defence, much faster and was actually a two-handed fighter, as opposed to Frazier who did pretty much all his work with the left hook. Unlike Foreman/Frazier/Ali/Shavers/ect, Tyson had very similar hand speed to Ali.

    Ali was very fast and wouldn't be an easy target for Mike, and was also great at tying guys up on the inside, which was one of Mike's weaknesses as a lot of times he would accept the clinch and not try to fight out of it. But I just see Tyson's speed, skill and aggression making Ali very tentative, probably looking to survive and end up giving away rounds. And for sure Tyson could catch him and knock him out: remember 185lb Henry Cooper just about did it in their first fight, and might have went on to stop Ali if Dundee hadn't pulled some shady shit in the corner.
     
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  25. Ted Williams' head

    Ted Williams' head It's freezing in here!

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    Haha I don't hate Ali, but I think people look at him with rose coloured glasses. He gets looked at as this courage anti-war hero who selflessly gave up his prime years to protest an unjust war. Bull shit. He had no problem with the war when he wasn't eligible for draft for flunking that intelligence test. He wasn't speaking out against it when he didn't have to fight. It was only when they lowered the standards and he was drafted that he became an activist against it. I think his motivations were always self interest, as opposed to fighting for others.

    The stuff he said about Frazier, the uncle tom stuff, turning black people against Frazier, that was a scumbag move and went too far. He was a jerk in a lot of ways.

    But he was also a very special athlete and an incredible personality. Very gifted guy, the greatest HW of all time, heart of a warrior, you have to tip your hat to the guy.
     
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