Race discussion with Big.Thirsty

[DFW4L]

All Negroes have?

All Mongloids have?

All Caucasians have?

lol, ok, cant help myself here...

All three of those groups have genetics from each other, because it's 2016 (feet and boats and climate change)

 

[Leigh]

So these "average differences," how can they be conveniently referred to?

Some have already been provided. Black people, on average, are faster sprinters and are more likely to suffer from sickle cell anemia. This isn't evidence of race, as averages can be skewed by outliers etc.

 

[DFW4L]

Maybe we have a lot to learn?

Definitely, my position that race exists physically is very very new....was outright ridiculed ruthlessly just in '75 ('Sociobiology')

 

[Leigh]

lol, ok, cant help myself here...

All three of those groups have genetics from each other, because it's 2016 (feet and boats and climate change)

Ok, you list a race and then explain the physical identifiers.

 

[DFW4L]

So these "average differences," how can they be conveniently referred to?

'human differentiation' is commonly used....

(wall of text link)

Human Differentiation: Evolution of Racial Characteristics

 

[1031]

Some have already been provided. Black people, on average, are faster sprinters and are more likely to suffer from sickle cell anemia. This isn't evidence of race, as averages can be skewed by outliers etc.

that wasn't my question, it was obviously unclearly worded...I'm not sure I know how to word it more clearly at this point in time

 

[Leigh]

that wasn't my question, it was obviously unclearly worded...I'm not sure I know how to word it more clearly at this point in time

Ok. Well, that was the question you wrote and obviously the only thing I can respond to.

 

[Robbie Hart]

@Leigh will change his opinion if you can provide evidence that can't be refuted now or at any point in the future.......

 

[DFW4L]

Ok, you list a race and then explain the physical identifiers.

I can do that, but they will not be exclusive identifiers (the point I have been beating to death), I'll use a most commonly considered 'unique' type...

Australian Aborigines are commonly of fair stature, with well-developed torso and arms, and slender legs. The color of the skin is a shade of chocolate-brown or black, and the eyes are very dark brown or black. The hair is usually raven-black, not woolly, but fine and silky in texture, wavy, and long. The beard in males is well developed, as is the hair upon the body and the eyebrows. Male pattern balding is relatively common. Most Australian Aborigines (61 per cent) have blood type O.

The Australian Aborigines are typically dolichocephalic (narrow-headed), their cranial index (per cent ratio of cranial breadth to length) rarely exceeding 75 or 76. The brow-ridges are strong and prominent. The skull shape, looked from behind (norma occipitalis) is often sharply pentagonal. The nose is broad, the jaws are heavy, and the lips thick. Looked from the side (norma lateralis) the face tends to prognatism.

Aboriginal Papuans, descendants of the humans that first settled New Guinea, are racially similar to Australian Aborigines. Papuans typically have curly and sometimes wooly hair rather than the wavy hair typical of Australian Aborigines.

Australian Aborigine and Papuan populations diverged genetically and culturally during several thousand years of geographical separation. Unlike Australian Aborigines, who were strictly hunter-gatherers, aboriginal Papuans practiced agriculture. Their somewhat lower stature may result from lower protein intake or from adaptation to a more humid environment with greater vegetation cover than the desert-dwelling Australians.

Papuans speak many different native languages which are distinct from Asian and Polynesian languages. Papuan languages spoken in the New Guinea highlands have lexical similarities to reconstructed proto-Australian, indicating enduring similarities despite 6,000 to 8,000 years of geographical separation.



(not my own info of course - Human Differentiation: Evolution of Racial Characteristics)

 

[Lord Vutulaki]

Dog breeds are a social construct

To compare humans with domesticated canine

lol, ok, cant help myself here...

All three of those groups have genetics from each other, because it's 2016 (feet and boats and climate change)

So do individuals within each of those groups. What's your point mate?

 

[Leigh]

I can do that, but they will not be exclusive identifiers (the point I have been beating to death), I'll use a most commonly considered 'unique' type...

Australian Aborigines are commonly of fair stature, with well-developed torso and arms, and slender legs. The color of the skin is a shade of chocolate-brown or black, and the eyes are very dark brown or black. The hair is usually raven-black, not woolly, but fine and silky in texture, wavy, and long. The beard in males is well developed, as is the hair upon the body and the eyebrows. Male pattern balding is relatively common. Most Australian Aborigines (61 per cent) have blood type O.

The Australian Aborigines are typically dolichocephalic (narrow-headed), their cranial index (per cent ratio of cranial breadth to length) rarely exceeding 75 or 76. The brow-ridges are strong and prominent. The skull shape, looked from behind (norma occipitalis) is often sharply pentagonal. The nose is broad, the jaws are heavy, and the lips thick. Looked from the side (norma lateralis) the face tends to prognatism.

Aboriginal Papuans, descendants of the humans that first settled New Guinea, are racially similar to Australian Aborigines. Papuans typically have curly and sometimes wooly hair rather than the wavy hair typical of Australian Aborigines.

Australian Aborigine and Papuan populations diverged genetically and culturally during several thousand years of geographical separation. Unlike Australian Aborigines, who were strictly hunter-gatherers, aboriginal Papuans practiced agriculture. Their somewhat lower stature may result from lower protein intake or from adaptation to a more humid environment with greater vegetation cover than the desert-dwelling Australians.

Papuans speak many different native languages which are distinct from Asian and Polynesian languages. Papuan languages spoken in the New Guinea highlands have lexical similarities to reconstructed proto-Australian, indicating enduring similarities despite 6,000 to 8,000 years of geographical separation.



(not my own info of course - Human Differentiation: Evolution of Racial Characteristics)

Ok, so we are agreed that races may have average differences but not exclusive ones. Where we differ is that I don't believe non exclusive averages prove a race but you do.

Is that a fair summary?

 

[DFW4L]

To compare humans with domesticated canine


So do individuals within each of those groups. What's your point mate?

my point is if transportation never existed, climate change never caused migration it would be rather easy to explain the differences in various race groups

 

[Qat]

I expected this to be a pinneapple-war-thread.

Oh well.

 

[DFW4L]

Ok, so we are agreed that races may have average differences but not exclusive ones. Where we differ is that I don't believe non exclusive averages prove a race but you do.

Is that a fair summary?

No, because you do not believe race exists physically, hence you can not have an opinion on differences between them, there are no differences, its a social construct only, is what you think.

?

Not trying to be a nob, I am just lost at the point you start parsing our opinion differences of the physical characteristics of various races when you do not consider race to exist physically.

?

 

[1372]

@Song2

Release the hounds.

 

[1372]

No, because you do not believe race exists physically, hence you can not have an opinion on differences between them, there are no differences, its a social construct only, is what you think.

?

Not trying to be a nob, I am just lost at the point you start parsing our opinion differences of the physical characteristics of various races when you do not consider race to exist physically.

?

Go to bed.

We will be here tomorrow.

 

[1031]

Ok. Well, that was the question you wrote and obviously the only thing I can respond to.

There are average physical differences between races but this doesn't prove a physical difference between races. For example, west Africans have a higher incidence of ACTN3. West Africans happen to be black, so blacks on average are faster sprinters but being black in itself doesn't make someone a faster sprinter, the ACTN3 gene does.

How can we people, in the English language, conveniently refer to groups of people who display/have inherited/possess these identifying average differences?

Does this question make sense to anyone?

 

[1372]

How can we people, in the English language, conveniently refer to groups of people who display/have inherited/possess these identifying average differences?

Does this question make sense to anyone?

I'm Blank

 

[DFW4L]

Go to bed.

We will be here tomorrow.

lol, that may be my issue here, but referring back to thee origins of the discussion Leigh thinks race is only a social construct, right?

 

[DFW4L]

How can we people, in the English language, conveniently refer to groups of people who display/have inherited/possess these identifying average differences?

Does this question make sense to anyone?

'human differentiation' (and geographically the term 'ecosphere' is used, but the concept of them is renderred insignificant by transportation)

India is the ecosphere of the Dravidian race

Human Differentiation: Evolution of Racial Characteristics

 

[1031]

I'm Blank

I guess I am too. Is Leigh suggesting we shouldn't use the term "black" or is he suggesting we should use the term "west african black" or something else entirely?

 

[1372]

lol, that may be my issue here, but referring back to thee origins of the discussion Leigh thinks race is only a social construct, right?

Dude....No Idea.

I like everyone. ...And you was going to bed ages ago.

Keeping it real

 

[1031]

'human differentiation' (and geographically the term 'ecosphere' is used, but the concept of them is renderred insignificant by transportation)

India is the ecosphere of the Dravidian race

Human Differentiation: Evolution of Racial Characteristics

Seems more or less to capture the essence of it all.

 

[1372]

 

[Leigh]

No, because you do not believe race exists physically, hence you can not have an opinion on differences between them, there are no differences, its a social construct only, is what you think.

?

Not trying to be a nob, I am just lost at the point you start parsing our opinion differences of the physical characteristics of various races when you do not consider race to exist physically.

?

That's a non sequitur. I don't need to believe race is physically real to acknowledge there are average differences between them. Do you believe that a race can be defined by the average physical characteristics?

I'm trying to nail down your position so that we can discuss it but you seem to moving the goal posts.

1) You believe races are physically different.
2) You don't believe races have exclusive physical traits.

Those points appear to be mutually exclusive.