Discussion in 'The Off-topic Lounge' started by Hauler, Jan 16, 2020.
Mike Clevinger: Beanings will continue until morale improves.
If they can find that a certain few players were ring leaders in the whole thing, I think a 50+ game suspension is warranted. The problem is that if the whole team participated in the same capacity, you can’t suspend them all. I’m not sure how the MLB should handle that, frankly. With the buzzer stuff being rumored, it definitely feels worse, but it’s a really tough situation to fix.
Cora is boned though.
Sign stealing, when done from the dugout with the eyes of the players and coaches, is fair game imo. Once anything else is used, it’s indefensible.
The Black Sox scandal is complicated but not seen lightly. A couple of the players (Joe Jackson and Buck Weaver) are given a historical pass because they seemingly played to win, but they knew about the fix and didn’t tell anybody, and they still took money from the gamblers. The other guys straight up lost on purpose and deserved their punishments.
It’s complicated because they played for Charles Comisky, who was a penny pinching tyrant at a time where players couldn’t test the market for fair wages. A lot of the players who lost on purpose likely wouldn’t have done so had they been compensated for their talents, but even so their actions were worthy of a lifetime ban.
This depends on the battery. Sometimes even a coach calls pitches. Varies from system to system.
Reds would have beaten them regardless.
I don’t blame you for thinking this, but if you got to see what a major league pitcher’s pitches looks like from the plate, you’d understand why it’s important to know what’s coming. You won’t believe that a human being can do that with a ball. The sound it makes is terrifying, and you don’t know which way it’ll move until it’s too late to put your glove in the correct spot.
You really think so? It went 8 games and all accounts I’ve heard were that the Sox were the better team.
Also for the record I’m a Yankee fan and I was suspicious about them during the 2017 playoffs. They always seemed to know when a slider off the plate was coming with two strikes. I’ve never seen a modern team bite on that pitch less, which is substantial because with the stuff that guys are throwing now, the slider off the plate away to right handers is the most powerful put-away pitch in baseball right now. The Yankees did their part and were HORRENDOUS on that pitch in that series, but the Astros seemed to know it was coming. I assumed they were just more disciplined but I discussed the chance that they had the signs multiple times with friends.
Nobody knows for sure obviously, but if you read some of the newspaper articles prior to the series it wasn't a foregone conclusion that the White Sox would win. The Reds had a very good offensive team and a solid pitching staff. They went 96-44 that year and won the NL by 9 games. For a 162 game season, 96 wins computes to a 111 win season in today's game.
The White Sox were 88-52
Some articles even questioned why the odds were so heavy in the White Sox favor. Now we know why, but if you weren't on the take people were looking at the odds thinking "this doesn't make sense".
Pretty easy to spit on a pitch that starts middle plate if you know it's a slider.
But you are right, I remember the announcers praising the Astros plate discipline.
Nowadays, with the tech that’s going into spin rates and arm slots, it’s hard to identify a pitch as a slider until it’s too late. An 85 MPH slider is hard; damn near impossible with 92+.
Yup. Which is why it is so damaging that they KNEW what was coming.
Pitchers have mastered the art of perfecting their arm slot release points. As you said - it's pretty damn hard to figure out what is coming before it's too late.
Virtually identical delivery. One is a 97 mph, the other an 89 mph curve.
Exactly, and what the Astros did robbed their opponents of the most effective tool in a modern pitcher’s repertoire.
Springer was in on it.
0-2 off speed pitch blasted for a HR
For what it's worth, you might recall but last season I engulfed myself with baseball and it is one of my favorite sports now.
Not to sound like a hipster or anything but being that I was watching so much baseball last year, youtube had recommended me jomboy videos and honestly that guy is hilarious as fuck. He has funny videos where he lip reads and impersonates what players say to each other in his own unique/funny voice.
I subscribed to his channel probably less than a month before his videos on the cheat scandal which blew my mind more people weren't talking about it but fortunately as time passed the video and topic didn't die down it only gained momentum.
Astro's aren't my team but I was rooting for them to win but now, fuck em. They had a HUUUUGE advantage.
Another bring up people don't mention is base stealing. When you have someone on first and they know the upcoming pitch isn't going to be a fastball, much higher success percentage stealing bases on offspeed pitches compared to fastballs.
Houston Astricks I think is appropriate for that world series year.
Also, how come they can't replay inside the dugout during the "bang" games? I know they have camera's on the dugout and seems to me if you simply watch the dugout tape you can pinpoint exactly who does the banging on the trash can and in my opinion, that player/players should have a lifetime ban.
It was done behind the dugout. There's a picture out there of the setup they had.
Just had an Epiphany
This shit is much bigger than I had realized.
THE BETTING....all the informed bets from people close to the team and those that knew about this system as it was playing out.
For me, that cranks up all punishments...That is one of the reasons you don't allow cheating, insider knowledge
Imagine knowing the system and seeing the results...and then telling others and everybody betting big...so nasty
Also leads me to wonder if any smart fans/ex players(without knowledge of system) picked up on the system as it was happening and were called conspiracy kooks...haha...or just placed big bets.
For me another layer has been added
I hope Mike Bolsinger gets paid, this cheating is not just about wins and losses it fucked people’s careers. Bolsinger got sent to the minors after getting shelled by the Astros after 12 of 29 of his pitches were tipped.
Yeah, Mike. You're out of the majors because of one bad outing.
4 runs on 4 hits with 3 walks in 1/3 of an inning will get a lot of bubble player sent down. Who knows what could have happened if he stayed up in the majors. Point is he was sent down to the minors as a direct result of the Astros cheating.