Sports Should the cheating MLB players be suspended?

[Hauler]

View: https://twitter.com/wingoz/status/1218136285333815296?s=19

 

[Hauler]

Mike Clevinger: Beanings will continue until morale improves.


View: https://twitter.com/Mike_Anthony13/status/1217903086523617281?s=19

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

If they can find that a certain few players were ring leaders in the whole thing, I think a 50+ game suspension is warranted. The problem is that if the whole team participated in the same capacity, you can’t suspend them all. I’m not sure how the MLB should handle that, frankly. With the buzzer stuff being rumored, it definitely feels worse, but it’s a really tough situation to fix.

Cora is boned though.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

couldn't agree more. Kevin Kennedy says almost the same on his show, it's a good listen.

he does a brief history of "cheating" - Toronto's (alleged) man in white, the shot heard round the world (didn't know that one), etc.

IMO, sign stealing used to be gamesmanship (not the telescopic kind mentioned above) - with tech, it's not so much anymore & flat out wrong.

Sign stealing, when done from the dugout with the eyes of the players and coaches, is fair game imo. Once anything else is used, it’s indefensible.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

Without having comprehensive info about the whole cheating scandal, that’s how I feel. People within a given community like professional baseball talk to each other and I don’t find it likely that the Astros were doing this out of the blue. They probably took it to another level though.

when something like this happens a big business like the mlb will try to offer fans and the media a big scapegoat and actually not solve the problem at all. If that happens, I’d be satisfied with a huge penalty a la Ron Artest to the players but not lifetime.

I also don’t like stripping past accomplishments. If the actual problem is not solved then over time people tend to look fondly of the players and madly at the asterisks. correct me if I’m wrong but I feel like even the Black Sox scandal is seen lightly today and Shoeless Joe Jackson is seen as a martyr

The Black Sox scandal is complicated but not seen lightly. A couple of the players (Joe Jackson and Buck Weaver) are given a historical pass because they seemingly played to win, but they knew about the fix and didn’t tell anybody, and they still took money from the gamblers. The other guys straight up lost on purpose and deserved their punishments.

It’s complicated because they played for Charles Comisky, who was a penny pinching tyrant at a time where players couldn’t test the market for fair wages. A lot of the players who lost on purpose likely wouldn’t have done so had they been compensated for their talents, but even so their actions were worthy of a lifetime ban.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

it's the pitcher that's calling the pitches. The catcher is running through signs, based on how they decided to pitch this batter. When the pitcher sees the sign for the pitch he wants, he starts his delivery and the catcher sets up for the pitch.

This depends on the battery. Sometimes even a coach calls pitches. Varies from system to system.

 

[Hauler]

The Black Sox scandal is complicated but not seen lightly. A couple of the players (Joe Jackson and Buck Weaver) are given a historical pass because they seemingly played to win, but they knew about the fix and didn’t tell anybody, and they still took money from the gamblers. The other guys straight up lost on purpose and deserved their punishments.

It’s complicated because they played for Charles Comisky, who was a penny pinching tyrant at a time where players couldn’t test the market for fair wages. A lot of the players who lost on purpose likely wouldn’t have done so had they been compensated for their talents, but even so their actions were worthy of a lifetime ban.

Reds would have beaten them regardless.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

Thanks. I don't rly have a problem w it. Does the catcher rly need to call pitches? Can't the pitcher throw what he wants?

I don’t blame you for thinking this, but if you got to see what a major league pitcher’s pitches looks like from the plate, you’d understand why it’s important to know what’s coming. You won’t believe that a human being can do that with a ball. The sound it makes is terrifying, and you don’t know which way it’ll move until it’s too late to put your glove in the correct spot.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

Reds would have beaten them regardless.

You really think so? It went 8 games and all accounts I’ve heard were that the Sox were the better team.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

Also for the record I’m a Yankee fan and I was suspicious about them during the 2017 playoffs. They always seemed to know when a slider off the plate was coming with two strikes. I’ve never seen a modern team bite on that pitch less, which is substantial because with the stuff that guys are throwing now, the slider off the plate away to right handers is the most powerful put-away pitch in baseball right now. The Yankees did their part and were HORRENDOUS on that pitch in that series, but the Astros seemed to know it was coming. I assumed they were just more disciplined but I discussed the chance that they had the signs multiple times with friends.

 

[Hauler]

You really think so? It went 8 games and all accounts I’ve heard were that the Sox were the better team.

Nobody knows for sure obviously, but if you read some of the newspaper articles prior to the series it wasn't a foregone conclusion that the White Sox would win. The Reds had a very good offensive team and a solid pitching staff. They went 96-44 that year and won the NL by 9 games. For a 162 game season, 96 wins computes to a 111 win season in today's game.

The White Sox were 88-52

Some articles even questioned why the odds were so heavy in the White Sox favor. Now we know why, but if you weren't on the take people were looking at the odds thinking "this doesn't make sense".

 

[Hauler]

Also for the record I’m a Yankee fan and I was suspicious about them during the 2017 playoffs. They always seemed to know when a slider off the plate was coming with two strikes. I’ve never seen a modern team bite on that pitch less, which is substantial because with the stuff that guys are throwing now, the slider off the plate away to right handers is the most powerful put-away pitch in baseball right now. The Yankees did their part and were HORRENDOUS on that pitch in that series, but the Astros seemed to know it was coming. I assumed they were just more disciplined but I discussed the chance that they had the signs multiple times with friends.

Pretty easy to spit on a pitch that starts middle plate if you know it's a slider.

But you are right, I remember the announcers praising the Astros plate discipline.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

Pretty easy to spit on a pitch that starts middle plate if you know it's a slider.

But you are right, I remember the announcers praising the Astros plate discipline.

Nowadays, with the tech that’s going into spin rates and arm slots, it’s hard to identify a pitch as a slider until it’s too late. An 85 MPH slider is hard; damn near impossible with 92+.

 

[Hauler]

Nowadays, with the tech that’s going into spin rates and arm slots, it’s hard to identify a pitch as a slider until it’s too late. An 85 MPH slider is hard; damn near impossible with 92+.

Yup. Which is why it is so damaging that they KNEW what was coming.

Pitchers have mastered the art of perfecting their arm slot release points. As you said - it's pretty damn hard to figure out what is coming before it's too late.

Virtually identical delivery. One is a 97 mph, the other an 89 mph curve.
Good luck.

 

[Andrewsimar Palhardass]

Yup. Which is why it is so damaging that they KNEW what was coming.

Pitchers have mastered the art of perfecting their arm slot release points. As you said - it's pretty damn hard to figure out what is coming before it's too late.

Virtually identical delivery. One is a 97 mph, the other an 89 mph curve.
Good luck.

Exactly, and what the Astros did robbed their opponents of the most effective tool in a modern pitcher’s repertoire.

 

[Hauler]

Springer was in on it.

0-2 off speed pitch blasted for a HR


View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1194666401128222720

 

[Hauler]

Bregman


View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1194711339735879681

 

[D241]

This bothers me way more than the steroid era.

For what it's worth, you might recall but last season I engulfed myself with baseball and it is one of my favorite sports now.


Not to sound like a hipster or anything but being that I was watching so much baseball last year, youtube had recommended me jomboy videos and honestly that guy is hilarious as fuck. He has funny videos where he lip reads and impersonates what players say to each other in his own unique/funny voice.

I subscribed to his channel probably less than a month before his videos on the cheat scandal which blew my mind more people weren't talking about it but fortunately as time passed the video and topic didn't die down it only gained momentum.


Astro's aren't my team but I was rooting for them to win but now, fuck em. They had a HUUUUGE advantage.

Another bring up people don't mention is base stealing. When you have someone on first and they know the upcoming pitch isn't going to be a fastball, much higher success percentage stealing bases on offspeed pitches compared to fastballs.

Houston Astricks I think is appropriate for that world series year.

 

[D241]

Also, how come they can't replay inside the dugout during the "bang" games? I know they have camera's on the dugout and seems to me if you simply watch the dugout tape you can pinpoint exactly who does the banging on the trash can and in my opinion, that player/players should have a lifetime ban.

 

[Lukewarm Carl]

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/B7efY-PphVb/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

[Hauler]

Also, how come they can't replay inside the dugout during the "bang" games? I know they have camera's on the dugout and seems to me if you simply watch the dugout tape you can pinpoint exactly who does the banging on the trash can and in my opinion, that player/players should have a lifetime ban.

It was done behind the dugout. There's a picture out there of the setup they had.

 

[Rambo John J]

Just had an Epiphany

This shit is much bigger than I had realized.

THE BETTING....all the informed bets from people close to the team and those that knew about this system as it was playing out.

For me, that cranks up all punishments...That is one of the reasons you don't allow cheating, insider knowledge

Imagine knowing the system and seeing the results...and then telling others and everybody betting big...so nasty


Also leads me to wonder if any smart fans/ex players(without knowledge of system) picked up on the system as it was happening and were called conspiracy kooks...haha...or just placed big bets.


For me another layer has been added

 

[Sex Chicken]

I hope Mike Bolsinger gets paid, this cheating is not just about wins and losses it fucked people’s careers. Bolsinger got sent to the minors after getting shelled by the Astros after 12 of 29 of his pitches were tipped.

View: https://twitter.com/adams_at/status/1222506644761911296?s=20


View: https://twitter.com/SportsRadio610/status/1226961729759907840?s=20


View: https://twitter.com/mikecollett/status/1226992237692833793?s=20

 

[BeardOfKnowledge]

I hope Mike Bolsinger gets paid, this cheating is not just about wins and losses it fucked people’s careers. Bolsinger got sent to the minors after getting shelled by the Astros after 12 of 29 of his pitches were tipped.

View: https://twitter.com/adams_at/status/1222506644761911296?s=20


View: https://twitter.com/SportsRadio610/status/1226961729759907840?s=20


View: https://twitter.com/mikecollett/status/1226992237692833793?s=20

Yeah, Mike. You're out of the majors because of one bad outing.

 

[Sex Chicken]

Yeah, Mike. You're out of the majors because of one bad outing.

4 runs on 4 hits with 3 walks in 1/3 of an inning will get a lot of bubble player sent down. Who knows what could have happened if he stayed up in the majors. Point is he was sent down to the minors as a direct result of the Astros cheating.