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Don't agree with me
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@kaladin stormblessed you gun grabbing commie!
You're not taking my guns.
You're not taking my guns.
unless i read it wrong, you played devils advocate, despite supporting gun ownership
i respect when people see the nuance of complicated issues
Oh. I did not know arfcom spoke for all gun owners. Silly argument to vilify all gun owners. I can post some absolutely abhorrent left leaning forums and say look at all the democrats. They're all literal terrorists. Should we be making policy off of those fringe lunatics? Crazy talk.
Problem is, the "fringe lunatics" drive the policy. The moderates are irrelevant. Seventy-five percent of Americans support mandatory background checks, but the single-issue gun nuts stop it from gaining any traction.
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He wasn't talking about all gun owners
As someone that owns a few "assault weapons" and plenty of other guns, is a lifetime member of the NRA, has taken tactical weapons training due to my interest in being proficient with my guns, and is a member of a private gun club, I assure you you're mistaken.
What's this have to do with political party?
A non-insignificant number of gun owners are worthlessly trained while simultaneously believing they are the good guy with a gun ready to stop the bad guy. Along with said poor training and fetishism of guns as power, a great many do not secure their weapons and are much more likely to kill their family members or be stolen and provide additional crime guns with said irresponsible behaviors. Calling this out and saying that the zombie apocalypse crowd are fringe idiots is not an issue. This is a significant chunk of purchasers at every gun show I've been to.
Don’t you mean tourists?
Yep.
The single action you can take to most increase the chance that an immediate family member will be shot and killed, is to bring a gun into the house.
Want your emo teenage son to commit suicide? Keep a gun in the house, and it's much more likely to happen.
Want to die in a pointless road rage incident? Keep a handgun in your glovebox, and your chances skyrocket.
And don't even get me started on the cunts who keep unsecured firearms all over the house, ready to disappear onto the street five seconds after someone breaks in while you're at work.
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While I agree with that statement, it's a bit of a loaded stat.
The single action you take to most increase your children drowning is to own a pool. etc etc
I think the main point is simply realizing the danger of unsecured guns and the danger of lack of training.
This is one of my major criticisms. Half of crime guns in the US are stolen and the other half are straw purchases that routinely happen at a minority of gun shops. Both of those issues should be targeted. Heavy ad campaigns a to adjust peer pressure and social expectations of gun safety would likely be more effective than difficult to enforce laws, just as they worked to push opinion on seat belt use and smoking.
The simple reality is, the more guns you have around you, the less safe you are and the more likely you are to be murdered, commit suicide, or die in an accident.
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How do you rationalize this idea with various Scandinavian countries that have shooting cultures but who also have low violent crime rates?
When looking at gun ownership throughout the world there is not a linear relationship between gun ownership and murder.
I would suggest that guns simply allow the conversion of more assaults into murders and that the drivers of violence such as socioeconomic disparity are the primary driver of both violence and gun deaths, not simply applying population gun statistics to individuals well ignoring socioeconomic inputs.
Many rural communities in the south with significant gun owners have lower murder and violent crime rates than urban centers that have lower number of gun owners. Again it is not a linear relationship.
I am statistically less likely to die for violent crime than the average person in the Western Europe. An equally loaded stat, but one that highlights the population statistic due to my socioeconomic and demographic position in the United States.
Secured guns still cause a rise in suicides, accidental deaths etc. Many fathers have killed their teenage children by catching them sneaking into or out of their house in the middle of the night, and mistaking them for an intruder.
Many domestic assaults have turned into homicides because the guy lost his shit and the gun was right there.
Lots of people have killed themselves while cleaning their guns. Guns just plain don't make your house safer, they make it more dangerous. That's just the reality.
Not trying to be rude, but I don't know if you can have perspective on just how utterly and completely fucked your guy's gun culture is. I mean, Columbine, Sandy Hook, Las Vegas....... NONE of them have made any difference at all. What would it take? The gun nuts are too numerous, too fanatical and too deranged.
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What the hell did he say?
Sure, culture makes a huge difference. The points you make are absolutely valid, no doubt at all. But all else being equal, fewer guns equals fewer murders. I mean, until the mosque, I had essentially zero experience with gun crime despite being an emergency response worker. I'm at work right now, taking emergency calls, and I'll be shocked if I have to deal with a legitimate shooting anywhere in the country on this Friday night. It just plain doesn't happen.
Snap your fingers and all of a sudden New Zealand has the same rate of gun ownership as the USA does, and that is no longer the case.
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Okay Rosie.
I hope you never need a gun.
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He called out
@sparkuri for busting him and the rest of the Democrats who have been supporting a secret pedophile cabal that Trump almost got rid of preventing Biden from drinking children's blood to obtain adrenochrome
Can someone photoshop vampire teeth on Biden to make this story more believable?He called out
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I don't need gun deaths to be zero. I need gun deaths to result in the same amount of deaths as other implements of society such as hammers and knives etc.
To that end long guns in the United States do not need significant regulating. Pistols do.
If long guns create the same number of murders as hammers I don't find it particularly compelling that it needs to be a top priority to ban.
Focusing on the 90% of crime guns that result from straw purchases and legal guns being stolen would be a good start.
A slightly elitist position would be to increased training which has significant cost and would price some people out of the market, but for one that I think is worth the trade-off.
Well, I don't expect I will. Nobody I know has ever been the victim of a gun crime. Nobody I know has ever been threatened with a gun. I'm in a position to know firsthand what kind of crime is out there, and in New Zealand, gun crime is essentially zero. My home defence weapon is a rusty eel spear. If someone breaks in and I have to protect myself and my missus, there is basically zero chance that the intruder will have a gun. Even gang warfare home invasions here are usually carried out with baseball bats and machetes.
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Handguns are for sure your biggest problem gun-wise. Again, a lot of that is down to culture. Private sales and unsecured handguns getting stolen, to be more precise. But there's no way out of this mess for you guys. You've ignored the problem for too many decades, and there's too many fundamentalist fanatics who that's the one and only issue that determines their vote.
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I think I'd rather be shot
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I'm on the go so can't grab the actual Pew research on it, but it's an easy Google...
Americans views of wanting more gun laws have increased over the last few years and have recently been as high as they were right before we implemented the 1994 assault weapons ban.
I would not be surprised to see an assault weapons ban go through, but I also think that like 1994 it will not appreciably make a difference.
They don't generally use them, they just wave them around. It takes way more of a psychopath to hack someone's arm half off with a machete, than it does to pull a trigger.
That's why Mongrel Mob members don't do drivebys on Black Power members here, or vice versa. Because guns are comparatively rare (hence easier for the police to track), handguns are essentially illegal and the penalties for being caught with illegal weapons are harsh. Plus there's a huuuuge difference between driving slowly past while your mate takes a Glock and sprays rival gang members standing on the corner, versus jumping out of the car and attacking them with a machete. ?
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Legalizing drugs would fix a lot of the violence problems society in general has, but those colonial roots are hard to shake.
I’m surprised gun violence didn’t drop around ‘94?
All other crime rates across America dropped as the crack epidemic slowed down. This was how Rudy got praised as a crime fighter that made a difference in NY… people just conveniently ignored that crime rates dropped all across America as they touted things like Broken Windows Theory and Stop & Frisk laws.
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I didn't say otherwise.
The government's own study highlights that with the assault weapons ban crimes simply converted to other guns.
Gun crime went down along with the rest of the crime. It wasn't due to the assault weapons ban