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Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,500
29,658
But you think they're working hand in glove, and laughing behind closed doors because really they're both on the same page about everything?

McConnell, Pelosi, Trump, Biden, all working together, with the same goals and the same motivations, you think? Pretty simplistic, unrealistic view of the world.

??
no one said that, it's just another strawman you threw out. I said both parties' interests were more closely aligned with the wealthy elite than the 99%.
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,500
29,658
Yes, the border is a horrible shitshow and it is clearly not a huge priority of the administration. The situation is disgraceful and a stain on the nation.

Having said that - this situation existed when he took over. The Trump administration's actions at the border were so extreme, and they were so incompetent about it, that many of these families will never be reunited. You act like this is a situation that Biden created because being cruel to migrants thrills his base. If you want me to acknowledge that the border is a shitshow and Kamala isn't doing shit to fix it - which it is, and she isn't - then be honest about who created these conditions, and who supports the cruelty.



This is objectively not true, to the level that it is sheer fantasy.



Because that's who the people chose. He had the best name recognition, he was the hardest to demonise, he was a centrist who could speak to more of the electorate than almost anyone else on the stage, and he benefited from his association with Obama, who was far more popular than Trump or anyone on the Democratic stage.

He was also perceived as being the single candidate who Trump was most afraid to face in the general.

So, there's that.



Great, that must mean that there's no difference between them, and behind closed doors Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi are smoking cigars together giving each other back rubs, right?

Bernie Sanders and Ted Cruz, there's absolutely no difference between them at all. Either man reaches the Oval Office and their term unfolds no differently. Sure sure.

??
the situation at the border existed when Biden took office. Biden has made it worse, is on pace to DOUBLE the number of expulsions without hearings that Trump did at his peak. "But they started it" is intellectually indefenisible when you campaigned for a year on fixing it - or at the very least, not making it twice as worse in the first 6 months.

Against what standard is Pres Biden's influence peddling vis a vi his crackhead oil-consultant son's "art career" not an egregious example? How many examples do you need? Sure, you can play the #NeverTrump, but all of that mojo applied to Tulsi Gabbard and she wouldn't be bombing the poorest people in the world.

Finally, there are a lot of differences between the individuals in the political class. Just not any meaningful differences in how they administer gov't from the perspective of those not in The Big Club.
 

John Lee Pettimore

Further south than you
May 18, 2021
6,302
6,719
no one said that, it's just another strawman you threw out. I said both parties' interests were more closely aligned with the wealthy elite than the 99%.
Yeah no shit they are. There's no possible reality where it would be otherwise.

So what? Does that mean that both sides are identical, or essentially identical? For all intents and purposes, there's no difference between President Trump and President Sanders, President AOC or President MTG? Everything turns out more or less the same regardless of which of those four spends 8 years in the Oval Office, and which party controls the House and Senate in that time?

Effectively no difference between Ted Cruz's Supreme Court picks, and AOC's?

Is that your stance? Really?

??
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,500
29,658
Yeah no shit they are. There's no possible reality where it would be otherwise.

So what? Does that mean that both sides are identical, or essentially identical? For all intents and purposes, there's no difference between President Trump and President Sanders, President AOC or President MTG? Everything turns out more or less the same regardless of which of those four spends 8 years in the Oval Office, and which party controls the House and Senate in that time?

Effectively no difference between Ted Cruz's Supreme Court picks, and AOC's?

Is that your stance? Really?

??
yes. you're talking about different flavors of tyranny.
but tyranny over the masses to the benefit of those with access to power.
 

TheFifthScallop

Who am I kidding? I’m a whore.
Amateur Fighter
Nov 15, 2015
5,812
7,305
I'm a million miles away from calling the Dems "righteous". Stop being a binary simpleton. The Dems are corrupt, elitist, completely out of touch, dominated by a generation of power-hungry geriatrics who should have been pensioned off 20 years ago, and incompetent at winning elections.

But.

At least they:

A) aren't a personality cult,

B) want to live and work in a fucking democracy,

C) Will shitcan one of their guys if he turns out to be a sexual predator, as opposed to automatically forming a defensive shield around a child sex trafficker.

Which puts them one up on the Republicans in a BIG way.

??
Come on, man. You don’t need to call someone a simpleton because they don’t agree with you about a government in a country you don’t even live in.

You constantly say that you try to have civil conversations on here. Calling someone a simpleton because they have a different perspective than you just shows… You’re that annoying person who argues just for the sake of arguing.
 

MMAHAWK

Real Gs come from California.America Muthafucker
Feb 5, 2015
15,270
33,304
yes. you're talking about different flavors of tyranny.
but tyranny over the masses to the benefit of those with access to power.
No they’re all different
Only all republicans are the same
- probably what Don Lemon told him
 

RussfromNH

Live Free or Die
Dec 12, 2018
3,437
5,706
What happens to folks whose living is basically owning apartments/condos/houses and renting them out? How are they making a living with tenants who don't have to pay rent and can't be evicted?

Fuck em?
burn the building down, collect the insurance money then move on and learn to never step on government provided housing again
 

Hauler

Been fallin so long it's like gravitys gone
Feb 3, 2016
48,818
60,860
burn the building down, collect the insurance money then move on and learn to never step on government provided housing again
This isn't just about Section 8 stuff though, is it?

I honestly haven't followed it that closely.
 

Hauler

Been fallin so long it's like gravitys gone
Feb 3, 2016
48,818
60,860
Come on, man. You don’t need to call someone a simpleton because they don’t agree with you about a government in a country you don’t even live in.

You constantly say that you try to have civil conversations on here. Calling someone a simpleton because they have a different perspective than you just shows… You’re that annoying person who argues just for the sake of arguing.
He hurt my feelings a little bit.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
61,456
56,746
So Biden's BLM nominee has been involved in domestic terrorism. How we all feeling about that? Pretty good?
 

Freeloading Rusty

Here comes Rover, sniffin’ at your ass
Jan 11, 2016
26,916
26,589
Senate passes $1T bipartisan infrastructure bill in major victory for Biden
The bill is now heading to the House, where it faces an uncertain future and skepticism from progressives. Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) has vowed she won’t take it up until the Senate passes the second part of its infrastructure two step, a sweeping $3.5 trillion spending package that includes Democrats’ top priorities.
 

John Lee Pettimore

Further south than you
May 18, 2021
6,302
6,719
the situation at the border existed when Biden took office. Biden has made it worse, is on pace to DOUBLE the number of expulsions without hearings that Trump did at his peak. "But they started it" is intellectually indefenisible when you campaigned for a year on fixing it - or at the very least, not making it twice as worse in the first 6 months.
The situation is a shitshow, and Biden is certainly nowhere close to exempt from criticism for it. Are you expecting him and his administration to be totally immune from any and all criticism? No, that's how a cult works.

Biden certainly hasn't produced dramatic action on the border. He's deporting people left and right. Isn't that what the right wingers want? Wasn't that a big part of Trump's appeal? There is a highly contagious virus causing an international health crisis, and Biden is kicking undocumented immigrants out of the country as they show up. Shouldn't he be applauded for that by the Trump fans?

Personally, the border wouldn't crack. my top 10 issues to vote over. But Trump voters should praise the current situation at the border, right? Deportations are up, and people are being caged in inhumane conditions. That's what the right wingers voted for, isn't it?

Against what standard is Pres Biden's influence peddling vis a vi his crackhead oil-consultant son's "art career" not an egregious example?
Against objective reality, for fucks sakes.

Does Hunter Biden have an office in the West Wing?

Is he conducting US diplomacy visa WhatsApp chats, and cutting the actual Secretary of State out of the loop?

What would your reaction be if he WAS doing these things? Be honest now.

Finally, there are a lot of differences between the individuals in the political class. Just not any meaningful differences in how they administer gov't from the perspective of those not in The Big Club.
No meaningful difference between a Sanders or Warren administration, vs a Cruz or Cotton administration. Righto. Sure sure.

??
 

Filthy

Iowa Wrestling Champion
Jun 28, 2016
27,500
29,658
The situation is a shitshow, and Biden is certainly nowhere close to exempt from criticism for it. Are you expecting him and his administration to be totally immune from any and all criticism? No, that's how a cult works.

Biden certainly hasn't produced dramatic action on the border. He's deporting people left and right. Isn't that what the right wingers want? Wasn't that a big part of Trump's appeal? There is a highly contagious virus causing an international health crisis, and Biden is kicking undocumented immigrants out of the country as they show up. Shouldn't he be applauded for that by the Trump fans?

Personally, the border wouldn't crack. my top 10 issues to vote over. But Trump voters should praise the current situation at the border, right? Deportations are up, and people are being caged in inhumane conditions. That's what the right wingers voted for, isn't it?
my argument is that there is no real difference between the two. Thanks for going to such great lengths to fully articulate my point.

Against objective reality, for fucks sakes.

Does Hunter Biden have an office in the West Wing?

Is he conducting US diplomacy visa WhatsApp chats, and cutting the actual Secretary of State out of the loop?

What would your reaction be if he WAS doing these things? Be honest now.
That's what I thought, you claim "objective reality" but the only standard you provide is Trump. Again, Trump and Biden are the same - and thanks for articulating that point again. My reaction would be the same as when Trump was doing it, and that's because my standard is actually "objective" and not "subjective" - like Trump's corruption. That's a 'subjective' standard.




No meaningful difference between a Sanders or Warren administration, vs a Cruz or Cotton administration. Righto. Sure sure.

??
Yes - in exactly the same way as there's no real difference between a Trump and a Biden administration, against the objective standard of representing the interests of the voters.
 

Freeloading Rusty

Here comes Rover, sniffin’ at your ass
Jan 11, 2016
26,916
26,589
Secret IRS Files Reveal How Much the Ultrawealthy Gained by Shaping Trump’s “Big, Beautiful Tax Cut”

The Trump administration championed the pass-through provision as tax relief for “small businesses.”

Confidential tax records, however, reveal that Johnson’s last-minute maneuver benefited two families more than almost any others in the country — both worth billions and both among the senator’s biggest donors.


Dick and Liz Uihlein of packaging giant Uline, along with roofing magnate Diane Hendricks, together had contributed around $20 million to groups backing Johnson’s 2016 reelection campaign.

The expanded tax break Johnson muscled through netted them $215 million in deductions in 2018 alone, drastically reducing the income they owed taxes on. At that rate, the cut could deliver more than half a billion in tax savings for Hendricks and the Uihleins over its eight-year life.

But the tax break did more than just give a lucrative, and legal, perk to Johnson’s donors. In the first year after Trump signed the legislation, just 82 ultrawealthy households collectively walked away with more than $1 billion in total savings, an analysis of confidential tax records shows. Republican and Democratic tycoons alike saw their tax bills chopped by tens of millions, among them: media magnate and former Democratic presidential candidate Michael Bloomberg; the Bechtel family, owners of the engineering firm that bears their name; and the heirs of the late Houston pipeline billionaire Dan Duncan.
 

John Lee Pettimore

Further south than you
May 18, 2021
6,302
6,719
my argument is that there is no real difference between the two. Thanks for going to such great lengths to fully articulate my point.
Your argument is simpleminded and objectively incorrect, which is why you can't expand on it beyond the broadest of platitudes.

That's what I thought, you claim "objective reality" but the only standard you provide is Trump. Again, Trump and Biden are the same - and thanks for articulating that point again.
Chanting it over and over again does not make it true. Trump and Biden are nowhere close to the same. Trump did many things that Biden would never dream of doing. That is just reality.

My reaction would be the same as when Trump was doing it
You're more consistent and less hypocritical than most of the "both sides" guys, that is true.

and that's because my standard is actually "objective" and not "subjective" - like Trump's corruption. That's a 'subjective' standard.
Well no, it was egregious enough that it passed into objective fact. Trump was - far and away - the most personally corrupt President in our lifetimes. That is not reasonably up for debate. It's just a fact, plain and simple. If Hunter Biden failed his West Wing security vettings due to foreign business entanglements, but Biden overrode that, gave him an office in the West Wing anyway, and then put him in charge of the American corona response AND the Middle East peace process - then that would be the start of a direct equivalent. Trying to claim that Biden is as corrupt as Trump is the equivalent of trying to claim that Hillary is taller than Trump or that Bernie is younger than Trump. It's just plain not reality. You have to wilfully reject objective reality to claim it.

Yes - in exactly the same way as there's no real difference between a Trump and a Biden administration, against the objective standard of representing the interests of the voters.
There is no such thing as "the interests of the voters". My interests have minimal overlap with Jeff Bezos' interests or the My Pillow guy's interests, or the interests of the seditionist cunts who stormed the Capitol trying to destroy American democracy and install an autocrat dictator.

Your complaint seems to be "the people who spend their entire lives positioning themselves to lead the world's preeminent superpower, seem to mostly be concerned with expanding and maintaining their own personal power."

Yeah no shit. What reality could it be any other way? That doesn't mean that every one of them are the same, and that there's no difference regardless of who's in office.

Thought experiment - clones of both MLK Jr and Adolf Hitler enter modern American politics. Is there absolutely no difference at all - nothing - and no different outcome for America between President MLK Jr and President Hitler? Between President Bernie Sanders, and President Rand Paul? Everything remains identical, and everything plays out exactly the same under all 4 of these men? C'mon man - that's a ridiculous position to take and cling on to.

??
 

Freeloading Rusty

Here comes Rover, sniffin’ at your ass
Jan 11, 2016
26,916
26,589
Your argument is simpleminded and objectively incorrect, which is why you can't expand on it beyond the broadest of platitudes.



Chanting it over and over again does not make it true. Trump and Biden are nowhere close to the same. Trump did many things that Biden would never dream of doing. That is just reality.



You're more consistent and less hypocritical than most of the "both sides" guys, that is true.



Well no, it was egregious enough that it passed into objective fact. Trump was - far and away - the most personally corrupt President in our lifetimes. That is not reasonably up for debate. It's just a fact, plain and simple. If Hunter Biden failed his West Wing security vettings due to foreign business entanglements, but Biden overrode that, gave him an office in the West Wing anyway, and then put him in charge of the American corona response AND the Middle East peace process - then that would be the start of a direct equivalent. Trying to claim that Biden is as corrupt as Trump is the equivalent of trying to claim that Hillary is taller than Trump or that Bernie is younger than Trump. It's just plain not reality. You have to wilfully reject objective reality to claim it.



There is no such thing as "the interests of the voters". My interests have minimal overlap with Jeff Bezos' interests or the My Pillow guy's interests, or the interests of the seditionist cunts who stormed the Capitol trying to destroy American democracy and install an autocrat dictator.

Your complaint seems to be "the people who spend their entire lives positioning themselves to lead the world's preeminent superpower, seem to mostly be concerned with expanding and maintaining their own personal power."

Yeah no shit. What reality could it be any other way? That doesn't mean that every one of them are the same, and that there's no difference regardless of who's in office.

Thought experiment - clones of both MLK Jr and Adolf Hitler enter modern American politics. Is there absolutely no difference at all - nothing - and no different outcome for America between President MLK Jr and President Hitler? Between President Bernie Sanders, and President Rand Paul? Everything remains identical, and everything plays out exactly the same under all 4 of these men? C'mon man - that's a ridiculous position to take and cling on to.

??