What makes one "Greater" than Fedor?

[ShatsBassoon]

Yep you are all right. GOAT argument is still silly. Elsewhere water is wet and fire burns.
There is no way to win this argument. Fedor was a fantastic fighter but he had his downfalls just like the Chains the Jon Jones' the GSP's and Aldo's.
It's a young sport and hopefully the names of the fighters we cherish the most don't get washed away with history

 

[La Paix]

Pride fixed fights. Fedor juiced just like everyone else in pride. Fedor spent more time on his back in his fight against Bigfoot Silva than GSP has his entire career.
You could argue that Cain Velasquez would run through any of Fedors competition past present or prime.

I've never liked arguments like your last point. Wayne Gretzky is "The Great One" and always will be. If there was some magical way to get Wayne in his prime play a season now he'd probably put up smaller numbers than the stars of today, that's not how I measure greatness. I measure it as how the person in question dominated the best competitors of their time as its all relrelative.

As far as the Big foot fight that's picking one of Fedor's lowest points and basing an opinion off it, no weight in that IMO. You compare that fight to GSP who I love but I could argue back that shortly after GSP beat the then WW GOAT Hughes he got KTFO and base my opinion off that. We both know its ridiculous. Fedor lost to BF at near the end of his career after achieving GOAT status and the massive HWs were the new thing, he should've retired IMO as he already proved it all. GSP won that fight back against Serra which spring boarded him into the GOAT talk. Both guys will always be in the conversation and I'm happy for that but I'll never get how somebody can pick apart a HW legend who went 31-1 over near 10 years and use 3 loses at the end of his career to remember him by.

If Fedor did juice like everyone else as you say then its a wash, level playing field. I think the few fixed fights which were obvious or confirmed were a small percentage as a whole.

 

[seekntruth]

Yep you are all right. GOAT argument is still silly. Elsewhere water is wet and fire burns.
There is no way to win this argument. Fedor was a fantastic fighter but he had his downfalls just like the Chains the Jon Jones' the GSP's and Aldo's.
It's a young sport and hopefully the names of the fighters we cherish the most don't get washed away with history

It's all in good fun buddy!

 

[La Paix]

It's all in good fun buddy!

 

[ShatsBassoon]

Someone needs to make a timeline of greatest fighter during an era. To say one single fighter is the absolute GOAT is silly and takes away from all the greats. Royce was a GOAT (In his time) Hughes was a GOAT (In his time) Chocolate Al, Samurai, GSP, Jones and Aldo.
It's funny to dispute but to say one fighter is the greatest ever just makes you wrong in my mind.

 

[D241]

My only issue with ShatsBassoons post are that he hasn't mentioned Who is greater, and WHAT they did to make them greater.

People can try to bash Fedor all they want, to think any fighter can't have negatives about them is silly.

If you want to pick apart Fedor, can you at least have someone above him who can be picked apart less?

 

[MMAHAWK]

Yep you are all right. GOAT argument is still silly. Elsewhere water is wet and fire burns.
There is no way to win this argument. Fedor was a fantastic fighter but he had his downfalls just like the Chains the Jon Jones' the GSP's and Aldo's.
It's a young sport and hopefully the names of the fighters we cherish the most don't get washed away with history

I agree with this but I think saying stuff like Cain would run through any of Fedors competition is what helps wipe away their history. No one ever says Willie Mays or Babe Ruth would strikeout 8 of 10 times against Clayton Kershaw. No one says Jim Brown would get smashed by Ray Lewis or Bill Russell would be dominated by Demarcus Cousins. When Fedor fought it was electric and you knew you were seeing something special it was a feeling for me and many friends that has never been matched. His fights much like Anderson and now Jones you never knew what was going to happen. With GSP I went into every fight expecting a 5 round wrestling match and that's what usually happened.


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[La Paix]

Someone needs to make a timeline of greatest fighter during an era. To say one single fighter is the absolute GOAT is silly and takes away from all the greats. Royce was a GOAT (In his time) Hughes was a GOAT (In his time) Chocolate Al, Samurai, GSP, Jones and Aldo.
It's funny to dispute but to say one fighter is the greatest ever just makes you wrong in my mind.

This is good, kind of what I was saying with the Gretzky thing.

 

[ShatsBassoon]

My only issue with ShatsBassoons post are that he hasn't mentioned Who is greater, and WHAT they did to make them greater.

People can try to bash Fedor all they want, to think any fighter can't have negatives about them is silly.

If you want to pick apart Fedor, can you at least have someone above him who can be picked apart less?

I just don't look at it like who was greater. Simple as that. I enjoyed watching Fedor just as much as i enjoyed the Chucks and Hughes and Aldo's and GSP's.
To put it into perspective, i love NFL but i don't have a favorite team.
Its just as easy to discredit a fighter as it is to sing him praises.

 

[ShatsBassoon]

Did Fedor have enough speed, talent and perseverance to have the same amount of accomplishments in the lightweight or welterweight divisions that be did in the heavyweight divisions?
Did GSP have enough heart or chin to compete in the heavyweight division?
The GOAT argument has no end. Simple as that.

 

[La Paix]

The GOAT talk will never be agreed upon but at least points are debatable unlike P4P where its just fantasyland . Another reason why I vote for Fedor is because he was HW and a smaller one at that. He would literally beat the best out there in an open weight tourney in his prime right now IMO.

 

[MMAHAWK]

Did Fedor have enough speed, talent and perseverance to have the same amount of accomplishments in the lightweight or welterweight divisions that be did in the heavyweight divisions?
Did GSP have enough heart or chin to compete in the heavyweight division?
The GOAT argument has no end. Simple as that.

What does this mean. Don't know about Fedor but GSP cut to avoid middle weight so I would say no to him.


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[MMAHAWK]

The GOAT talk will never be agreed upon but at least points are debatable unlike P4P where its just fantasyland . Another reason why I vote for Fedor is because he was HW and a smaller one at that. He would literally beat the best out there in an open weight tourney in his prime right now IMO.

This i agree with


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[ShatsBassoon]

What does this mean. Don't know about Fedor but GSP cut to avoid middle weight so I would say no to him.


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Maybe so but heavyweight has always been the least talented division. The heavies have always been exciting to watch but nowhere near the talent that fills the lighter weight divisions.
Around we go again.

 

[MMAHAWK]

Maybe so but heavyweight has always been the least talented division. The heavies have always been exciting to watch but nowhere near the talent that fills the lighter weight divisions.
Around we go again.

Yes maybe heavyweights 11-100 but top 10 I disagree prides division was much deeper than any UFC division at the time. The UFC had no lightweight or lower. Hughes was fighting frank Trigg and Gil Castillo. Franklin was fighting quarry, Tanner RIP and the crow. Chuck was fighting babalu and Vernon white, randy, and Tito. I think the depth of the heavies was a UFC talking point to discredit Fedor.


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[nni]

Maybe so but heavyweight has always been the least talented division. The heavies have always been exciting to watch but nowhere near the talent that fills the lighter weight divisions.
Around we go again.

This "least talented" division argument is bogus. Smaller weight classes have a larger population of individuals to choose from, but that doesn't mean that a more talented small fighter can compete with a significantly larger, less talented fighter.

Do you think that the most talented lightweight or welterweight could win a fight at Heavyweight?

Do you think that if Fedor fought guys in lower divisions at the time he would have lost more?

 

[Mertvaya Ruka]

Weird spin on the typical "Fedor is GOAT" thread.

Anyway, you want criticism?

For one, Fedor didn't seek to fight the best at all times. His career was mismanaged, the way he went out was pretty fucking lame to be honest. He's a great fighter but not fighting in the UFC hurt is credibility big time.

And anyway, you are trying to make a point Fedor wouldn't even try to make. He never sought to be the "GOAT", he gave 0 fuck about that, hence why there's plenty of guys he didn't seek to fight in the UFC.

 

[La Paix]

Weird spin on the typical "Fedor is GOAT" thread.

Anyway, you want criticism?

For one, Fedor didn't seek to fight the best at all times. His career was mismanaged, the way he went out was pretty fucking lame to be honest. He's a great fighter but not fighting in the UFC hurt is credibility big time.

And anyway, you are trying to make a point Fedor wouldn't even try to make. He never sought to be the "GOAT", he gave 0 fuck about that, hence why there's plenty of guys he didn't seek to fight in the UFC.

I strongly disagree with your statement about not fighting in the UFC.

 

[Mertvaya Ruka]

I strongly disagree with your statement about not fighting in the UFC.

The same kind of argument can be made for anyone who has a claim to be "GOAT" and didn't end up fighting the best of their time.

People make the same argument for Mayweather if he didn't fight Pac. The fight is happening now so that's a moot point. But it's a legit argument, that you disagree doesn't change reality.

 

[CockPuncher]

I'm not saying it's easy, but it is pretty simple to tell you how to be better than Fedor.

First you have to never quite get in shape. Fight is coming up versus a cut 260lb. monster? Fugggit. Eat that goulash. Oh, the opponent trained at the baddest training camp on earth? No biggy, I got my boys from my hometown in Russia.

Then you just drink some vodka, walk in to the ring with a dopey calm grin, and then beat a whose who of the greatest current fighters on earth.

Now you're as good as Fedor. Step 2 is to get some of those good Chinese steroid analogues. Step 3 = profit.

 

[La Paix]

The same kind of argument can be made for anyone who has a claim to be "GOAT" and didn't end up fighting the best of their time.

People make the same argument for Mayweather if he didn't fight Pac. The fight is happening now so that's a moot point. But it's a legit argument, that you disagree doesn't change reality.

its not reality considering the time frame. PRIDE had the better HWs during Fedors reign and he beat them all so to go over to the UFC to beat HW who weren't as good wouldn't prove anything.

The man was able to beat 2 k-1 champions, 2 Olympic medalists in judo, a silver medalist in wrestling, an ADCC champion and 5 UFC heavyweight champions. Whilst racking up 12 top 10 wins in the process.

 

[D241]

Weird spin on the typical "Fedor is GOAT" thread.

Anyway, you want criticism?

For one, Fedor didn't seek to fight the best at all times. His career was mismanaged, the way he went out was pretty fucking lame to be honest. He's a great fighter but not fighting in the UFC hurt is credibility big time.

All I'm saying, is many people feel GSP or Anderson is Goat. I wanted them to tell me what they did that they think is greater than what Fedor did.

For some reason this thread is turning into a bash Fedor thread.

It's 3 pages deep, and no one has mentioned a fighter they think is greater than Fedor, and what they did that makes them greater.

 

[D241]

The same kind of argument can be made for anyone who has a claim to be "GOAT" and didn't end up fighting the best of their time.

People make the same argument for Mayweather if he didn't fight Pac. The fight is happening now so that's a moot point. But it's a legit argument, that you disagree doesn't change reality.

Since you are putting so much emphasis on UFC Caliber fighters.....

-Fedor faced 19 different opponents who either before or after facing Fedor were in the UFC.

-Of those 19, 14 of them fought for a UFC title.

*Tsuyosi Kosaka, *Renato Sobral, Semmy Schilt, Heath Herring, **Antonio Nogueira, Gary Goodridge, **Mark Coleman,**Kevin Randleman, Mirko Filipovic, *Mark Hunt, *Matt Lindland, **Tim Sylvia, **Andre Arvloski, *Fabricio Werdum, *Antonio Silva, *Dan Henderson, *Jeff Monson, **Pedro Rizzo
*=fought for UFC Title
**=UFC HW Champion

-Of those 19, Fedor was 16-3, with the 3 losses coming after his 10year dominance. He was 33 his first loss.(with over 30mma fights + Sambo fights)



But I digress

Who is greater than Fedor(in your opinion), and more importantly, What did they do that you view as greater?
That's all I'm asking people's opinions on(if they don't feel Fedor is Goat). I'm just trying to understand a perspective I may not have, that's all.

 

[Ryann Von Doom]

I can think of an Olympic silver medalist middleweight
who's greater. He proved it by outstriking and outgrappling Fedor.

No such thing happened.

 

[Mertvaya Ruka]

Since you are putting so much emphasis on UFC Caliber fighters.....

-Fedor faced 19 different opponents who either before or after facing Fedor were in the UFC.

-Of those 19, 14 of them fought for a UFC title.

*Tsuyosi Kosaka, *Renato Sobral, Semmy Schilt, Heath Herring, **Antonio Nogueira, Gary Goodridge, **Mark Coleman,**Kevin Randleman, Mirko Filipovic, *Mark Hunt, *Matt Lindland, **Tim Sylvia, **Andre Arvloski, *Fabricio Werdum, *Antonio Silva, *Dan Henderson, *Jeff Monson, **Pedro Rizzo
*=fought for UFC Title
**=UFC HW Champion

-Of those 19, Fedor was 16-3, with the 3 losses coming after his 10year dominance. He was 33 his first loss.(with over 30mma fights + Sambo fights)



But I digress

Who is greater than Fedor(in your opinion), and more importantly, What did they do that you view as greater?
That's all I'm asking people's opinions on(if they don't feel Fedor is Goat). I'm just trying to understand a perspective I may not have, that's all.

Fedor did some great things, he had a good run from 2000 to 2007. There's no denying that.

He retired in 2012. You got 5 years where he didn't fight at the very top level, that hurt him if you claim he's the GOAT.

He didn't fight Randy, Mir, Brock, Carwin, Cain, JDS. He could have fought all these guys from 2007 to 2012.

And it's not like Fedor was an old man, he was what, 30 years old?