Any heavyweight that wanted to fight the best came looking for Fedor not the other way around. That is why AA #2 at the time and big Tim #4 left UFC to fight Fedor. Randy tried to leave and got sued and Barnett test positive. Was he supposed to go to UFC to fight lower ranked competition?Mertvaya Ruka;28324 said:Weird spin on the typical "Fedor is GOAT" thread.
Anyway, you want criticism?
For one, Fedor didn't seek to fight the best at all times. His career was mismanaged, the way he went out was pretty fucking lame to be honest. He's a great fighter but not fighting in the UFC hurt is credibility big time.
And anyway, you are trying to make a point Fedor wouldn't even try to make. He never sought to be the "GOAT", he gave 0 fuck about that, hence why there's plenty of guys he didn't seek to fight in the UFC.
D241;n28361 said:All I'm saying, is many people feel GSP or Anderson is Goat. I wanted them to tell me what they did that they think is greater than what Fedor did.
For some reason this thread is turning into a bash Fedor thread.
It's 3 pages deep, and no one has mentioned a fighter they think is greater than Fedor, and what they did that makes them greater.
Zeph;n27367 said:If Aldo beats Conor he will be on a 10 year, 19 fight win streak. Only 1 fight in that streak was even close, against Mendes, but Jose clearly won it(minus the Conor fight, obviously). 9 finishes in that streak, so currently 50% of the fights in his streak he has finished. Assuming he beats Conor, he will have beat the best each discipline has to offer, the best grapplers and strikers. Never been in real trouble, the closest he has come to trouble is a flash knockdown against Mendes, but he literally bounced back to his feet and came back stronger than ever.
Dan Hendersonnni;n27977 said:This "least talented" division argument is bogus. Smaller weight classes have a larger population of individuals to choose from, but that doesn't mean that a more talented small fighter can compete with a significantly larger, less talented fighter.
Do you think that the most talented lightweight or welterweight could win a fight at Heavyweight?
Do you think that if Fedor fought guys in lower divisions at the time he would have lost more?
I'm sure you're being the devils advocate but to base an entire career off that loss or the other 3 compared to everything else he did isn't a winning argument.ShatsBassoon;n28578 said:Dan Henderson
ShatsBassoon;n28594 said:Put any and all GOAT candidates in an open weight tourney in their prime and ask yourself you would win. That guy would be the greatest, I think
The finish rate is a good argument, but slightly disingenuous considering the divisions they fought in. Featherweight fighters have less power than heavyweights to knock people out, there will always be less finishes in that division overall. However, the overall talent is higher in the 145 division than it will ever be at heavyweight, due to being closer to the size of an average human male.D241;n28575 said:Are you saying Aldo beating a whole bunch of 145lb guys, half of them not being finished, that that is better than Fedor's 10 year 31 fight win streak beating guys who would crush the 145lb men Aldo beat-in so many words?
Exactly. Greatest is actual, not what if. Pound for pound talk is "what if", as in "what if Floyd Mayweather had Muhammad Ali's body structure.Zeph;n28982 said:As for the argument that Fedor would beat them because they are smaller, than argument is asinine. Floyd Mayweather has a legitimate argument for being the best boxer ever, whether you agree with it or not, the argument is there to be made, but he would still lose to even today's heavyweight top 10.
If we are just talking who would win in a fight, then Cain Velasquez is the greatest fighter ever.D241;n28998 said:Exactly. Greatest is actual, not what if. Pound for pound talk is "what if", as in "what if Floyd Mayweather had Muhammad Ali's body structure.
Floyd has an argument for being the best boxer ever.....pound for pound. It's quite obvious there are several fighters who could beat him, which if FM could beat them, that would be Great, but he can't.
I bet your opinion is if you gave Jose Aldo Fedor's body, but with everything else Jose Aldo, you would think Aldo is a better fighter(I wouldn't argue).
But if you had Jose in a tournament with the 7 other Goat candidates, you surely admit that Jose would not make it to the finals. So if Jose is the least threatening fighter, I don't understand what makes him so great?
Now again, if we're talking his skills in a bigger man's body, that's a different argument. But we're talking actual greatest fighter, like boxing's actual greatest fighter, no one says Floyd would beat Ali. Pound for pound they might say Floyd is better, but in terms of actual ability to be great regardless of skill AND size, Ali/Fedor all the way.
So now it is about what have you done? You just said it was who was going to win a fight. If it is what have you done, then I made my case for Aldo. If it is who would win in a fight then my pick is Cain Velasquez.D241;n29008 said:what bases do you have Cain being better than Fedor. What has he done to make you think that?
Same goes for Lennox, what do you think Lennox has done to be viewed as the greatest boxer ever?
Cain Velasquez beats up everyone on that list.I sucked Stillmatics WOODley;n29014 said:I dont like he debate about HW not being as talented compared to smaller classes, that's the balance of life. Its the as comparing a crazy modded turbo 4 cylinder engine against a healthy big block. Bottom line is the HW can and will use size over teqniqie and still get the job done and that's not a bad thing. Its similar to how people will complain about the flyweights or whatever not having as many finishes in fights due to lack of power. Big guys can rely on just being bigger and the trade off is cardio and technique so one could argue that game planning and defense is much more critical to them than to ants who stand and wang. So does this mean the HW are superior in those areas? Its all in the wording of the topic. To me the GOAT better be the guy who will literally beat up all the other ones on the list, Fedor. If its worded most dominant then its more about winning streak, title defenses or finish rate so this could be GSP/Aldo or whoever.
You want your cake and to eat it too. Either it is about who wins in a fight and in that situation, if Brock did beat Fedor, then yes he would be considered better than Fedor. However, if it is about achievements then, no just beating Fedor without the achievements, wouldn't be enough - under the right circumstances. You can't judge by achievements to get in the argument and then decided it by saying who would win in a fight, because they are all have different circumstances surrounding their fights and achievements to put them into context.I sucked Stillmatics WOODley;n29047 said:Is Cain mentioned in the GOAT talk often? I think you have to be in the pile first then ask who the best there no? Cain vs Fedor would ne one of the best fights ever so its too bad the timing was off. If the Brock vs Fedor fight took place and Brock won that wouldn't make Brock GOAT. Some steps to getting in the GOAT talk imo would be having a legendary career by beating the best available, have a long winning streak, finish guys, fight an exciting style. Once all that is done your in the debate.
Zeph;n29079 said:You want your cake and to eat it too. Either it is about who wins in a fight and in that situation, if Brock did beat Fedor, then yes he would be considered better than Fedor. However, if it is about achievements then, no just beating Fedor without the achievements, wouldn't be enough - under the right circumstances. You can't judge by achievements to get in the argument and then decided it by saying who would win in a fight, because they are all have different circumstances surrounding their fights and achievements to put them into context.
If Conor beats Aldo he doesn't have the achievements to be in the discussion, but he would have the potential. Not to mention it removes Aldo from winning the discussion, unless he can avenge the loss. Weidman is another one with the potential to be in the talks, he beat Silva twice and if he carries on winning, it will be a question of how long and how impressive his career is, not whether he would beat a heavyweight in a fight. GOAT talks should be about achievements, not who would beat who in fight.I sucked Stillmatics WOODley;n29200 said:I see your point there, fair enough. If Conor beats Aldo is he all the sudden in the GOAT talks?is Weidman in the GOAT talks? I say no to both. The GOAT and P4P talk will never be factual and its been beat to death everywhere. I still stand by my opinions and criteria all though I do see what you're saying.
Zeph;n29019 said:So now it is about what have you done? You just said it was who was going to win a fight. If it is what have you done, then I made my case for Aldo. If it is who would win in a fight then my pick is Cain Velasquez.