Your thoughts on UFC being the #1 org indefinitely

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Can Bellator rival the UFC if they keep the pace they're on now?

  • Yes

    Votes: 25 50.0%
  • No

    Votes: 25 50.0%

  • Total voters
    50

Clappin'Daddys

Posting Machine
Sep 9, 2015
2,529
3,563
See, that's fine. If Bellator wants to bring checks and balances to MMA negotiations for free agents, great. But that's pretty much where they fit. They are the Arena League or the CFL is my point and while those leagues aren't going away, they aren't exactly threatening the NFL either.
I say that as a bare minimum. Look at what Coker did with Strikeforce while they were on a premium channel. I could imagine bellator going much further than Strikeforce did. With af, Coker started from scratch. With bellator, Coker started with a mess(which is indicated by how many cuts he made and how they cut the amount of shows down to 16 last year.)
Bellator, under Coker, is making all the right moves to establish itself before they make gigantic power plays.with the connections bellator is making in the Asian market, I could actually see them beating the UFC over there. They are going international. They are co promoting, and there are rumors about them possibly getting Overeem, bendo, and sterling.

They also have prospects making their debuts later this year one next year. Bellator has all the tools to become the wcw to UFCs wwe. They could be the showtime to UFCs HBO boxing.

Idk if they will ever be number one, but I can see competition getting stiff as fuck in a couple of years.
 

Wild

TMMAC's Most Handsome Admin
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Dec 31, 2014
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Will they ever be on par with the UFC? Or surpass the UFC? I doubt it. If so, it will take another 7-10 years. BUT....with this Reebok disaster, the lawsuit, and more & more disgruntled fighters testing free agency. Now is their time to close the gap considerably, and I think they will. I expect them to sign Sterling & Mitrione. I wont be shocked if they sign Overeem & Bendo either. They have Pico, Ruth, Fortune in development. They have young, exciting guys that are right there on the cusp of becoming household names/stars, in Page & Straus.

It is going to be interesting to see how this plays out, because here's the thing. Scott Coker is a more intelligent, business savvy, likable promoter than Dana White or Lorenzo Fertitta will ever be. He's proven that he can build a promotion and develop talent. Strikforce's roster was SICK when you look back now at who they had. Imagine if Silicon Valley Entertainment hadn't sold & Coker was able to build on what he had created for another 5-6-7 years. We might be saying that Strikeforce is on par with the UFC right now.
 

Clappin'Daddys

Posting Machine
Sep 9, 2015
2,529
3,563
Will they ever be on par with the UFC? Or surpass the UFC? I doubt it. If so, it will take another 7-10 years. BUT....with this Reebok disaster, the lawsuit, and more & more disgruntled fighters testing free agency. Now is their time to close the gap considerably, and I think they will. I expect them to sign Sterling & Mitrione. I wont be shocked if they sign Overeem & Bendo either. They have Pico, Ruth, Fortune in development. They have young, exciting guys that are right there on the cusp of becoming household names/stars, in Page & Straus.

It is going to be interesting to see how this plays out, because here's the thing. Scott Coker is a more intelligent, business savvy, likable promoter than Dana White or Lorenzo Fertitta will ever be. He's proven that he can build a promotion and develop talent. Strikforce's roster was SICK when you look back now at who they had. Imagine if Silicon Valley Entertainment hadn't sold & Coker was able to build on what he had created for another 5-6-7 years. We might be saying that Strikeforce is on par with the UFC right now.
The UFC knew what they were doing when they bough Strikeforce out. They couldn't afford not too. Heading for fox would have left spike wide open for Strikeforce. Having Strikeforce on showtime and spike would have been an absolute power play on their part. Not to mention they were already having events on network tv( wanna say nbc but don't quote me).

Sound like a broken record, but the UFC did themselves a huge favor by buying Strikeforce out.
 
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pattitude

Posting Machine
Pro Fighter
Oct 25, 2015
909
1,037
I posted this in a UFC hate thread a while back. The UFC isn't perfect and neither is anybody else.

http://mmapayout.com/2015/07/viacom-sued-by-early-investor-in-bellator-mma/
So, it's OK to consistently fuck people over because the UFC isn't perfect and "neither is anybody else"?

By that line of reasoning, I should be able to kill 1.43 people per 100.000 per year in Canada because it isn't that bad? And I shouldn't be subject to the laws that already exist (i.e. anti-trust and homicide).

Canada's homicide rate drops to lowest level since 1966

I'm not trying to equate what Zuffa's monopoly does to murder, rather, I'm trying to point out that because something is worse doesn't make everything else good by default.
 
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Andrewsimar Palhardass

Women, dinosaurs, and the violence of the octagon.
Jan 8, 2016
5,220
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I honestly think any "yes" answers in this are wishful thinking. I also think that we wouldn't like it as much as we think we would if UFC lost a bit of their monopoly. A UFC title in today's age means that you are definitively the best fighter in the world at your weight class. That won't be the case anymore if other organizations catch up. MMA titles will be like boxing titles- borderline meaningless. I don't think that would be good for the sport. Competition will make the fighters get paid more, and that would be good for the sport, but there can be competition while UFC stays the big dog so the title holds its weight.
 

TheEmperorRises

Right click hospital, left click cemetery
Dec 4, 2015
7,638
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A UFC title in today's age means that you are definitively the best fighter in the world at your weight class.
Nah, they're just great at making it seem that way.

Years ago I would have taken Jacare or Rockhold over Anderson when they were ruling Steikeforce and he was ruling the UFC and would have been laughed at.

Eddie Alvarez just beat the Strikeforce LW champ, then beat the former WEC/UFC LW champ for an encore.

Former Strikeforce guys have every belt from WW up.

Before she signed up, everyone was very quick to dismiss Holm as a legit threat to Rousey. We saw how that played out.
 

Andrewsimar Palhardass

Women, dinosaurs, and the violence of the octagon.
Jan 8, 2016
5,220
6,795
Nah, they're just great at making it seem that way.

Years ago I would have taken Jacare or Rockhold over Anderson when they were ruling Steikeforce and he was ruling the UFC and would have been laughed at.

Eddie Alvarez just beat the Strikeforce LW champ, then beat the former WEC/UFC LW champ for an encore.

Former Strikeforce guys have every belt from WW up.

Before she signed up, everyone was very quick to dismiss Holm as a legit threat to Rousey. We saw how that played out.
That actually kinda supports my idea, because Strikeforce no longer exists. Those guys are now in the UFC, because that's where the best in the world go. I didn't say that the UFC has always had the best fighters throughout its history. It absolutely does now though.

We found out how good Rockhold, Jacare and Eddie really are by watching them go to the place where the best in the world are. We would not have gotten those matchups had Strikeforce stayed intact. It would have just been speculation forever.

I'm not sure how people doubting Holm matters here. Maybe I stretched when I said that the UFC champ is "definitively" the best in the world, but I don't know how it can be disputed that the best fighters, in general, fight for UFC and because of that the title matters a ton more than the other MMA title, and a ton more than the boxing titles. Because of the UFC's dominance, we routinely see the best vs the best, which is something that wouldn't exist if a rival organization caught up.
 
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TheEmperorRises

Right click hospital, left click cemetery
Dec 4, 2015
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We found out how good Rockhold, Jacare and Eddie really are by watching them go to the place where the best in the world are. We would not have gotten those matchups had Strikeforce stayed intact. It would have just been speculation forever.

Because of the UFC's dominance, we routinely see the best vs the best, which is something that wouldn't exist if a rival organization caught up.
No, they were always that good- some people just didn't finally believe it until now.

And if the UFC wasn't such a dick about co-promoting, we would have never had to wonder if their champions could beat the guys from Pride or Strikeforce or WEC. Thankfully Coker has proven to be a little more open minded about that.
 

Andrewsimar Palhardass

Women, dinosaurs, and the violence of the octagon.
Jan 8, 2016
5,220
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No, they were always that good- some people just didn't finally believe it until now.

And if the UFC wasn't such a dick about co-promoting, we would have never had to wonder if their champions could beat the guys from Pride or Strikeforce or WEC. Thankfully Coker has proven to be a little more open minded about that.
I never said they weren't that good. I said it the way I said it for a reason. We found out how good they are, outside of speculation, because they finally fought in the UFC.
 

Wild

TMMAC's Most Handsome Admin
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Dec 31, 2014
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I honestly think any "yes" answers in this are wishful thinking. I also think that we wouldn't like it as much as we think we would if UFC lost a bit of their monopoly. A UFC title in today's age means that you are definitively the best fighter in the world at your weight class. That won't be the case anymore if other organizations catch up. MMA titles will be like boxing titles- borderline meaningless. I don't think that would be good for the sport. Competition will make the fighters get paid more, and that would be good for the sport, but there can be competition while UFC stays the big dog so the title holds its weight.
Some good points.
 

Andrewsimar Palhardass

Women, dinosaurs, and the violence of the octagon.
Jan 8, 2016
5,220
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Parity is good in some instances, but I think the only thing that would fix the issues that we have without hurting the sport is if a more fighter-friendly group bought the UFC from Zuffa. I don't see a situation where another organization overtakes UFC without the sport taking a major hit in the process.
 

ConorMcGregorsBeard

Stewart Era Liberal
Jul 22, 2015
34,203
32,967
If both the UFC and Bellator continue to do business the way they currently are. It's not so much a matter of 'if', as it is a matter of 'when'. UFC will continue to shed respected fighters, and Bellator will continue to pick them up.

Will Bellator surpass, or equal the UFC in terms of popularity or talent depth? Probably not.
Will Bellator develop a deep talent pool and steal a ratings win from time to time? Almost definitely.
 

kneeblock

Don't it always seem to go
Apr 18, 2015
10,205
18,964
I think people are being far too short sighted. The era of orgs is coming to an end.

There is a perfect storm brewing right now with the antitrust suit, the US Department of Justice investigation, discontent over sponsorship and contracts causing fighters to sign shorter deals as they test free agency, growth in new international markets, crossover mainstream stars becoming pop icons (i.e. McGregor and Rousey), outside investment from traditional media companies, the increasing popularity of new media distribution channels and growing enthusiasm for fighters to organize to advocate for themselves as labor.

All of this could easily reach a tipping point that leads to a situation more similar to boxing. Fighters may come to control their careers directly and people like Dana and Coker may fade to the background as simply promoters instead of having the professional wrestling style control they have at present. Bellator doesn't have to overtake the UFC. They just have to dilute it enough that it's weaker when the court cases are completed. At that time, we'll see what the landscape is going to look like. But the fighters really need to be ready. Everyone needs to start preparing for a post-corporate MMA or someone will quickly swoop in and fill the gap and we'll be back to business as usual.
 

FadeToBlack

Rear Naked Poke
Mar 15, 2015
1,459
2,614
I say that as a bare minimum. Look at what Coker did with Strikeforce while they were on a premium channel. I could imagine bellator going much further than Strikeforce did. With af, Coker started from scratch. With bellator, Coker started with a mess(which is indicated by how many cuts he made and how they cut the amount of shows down to 16 last year.)
Bellator, under Coker, is making all the right moves to establish itself before they make gigantic power plays.with the connections bellator is making in the Asian market, I could actually see them beating the UFC over there. They are going international. They are co promoting, and there are rumors about them possibly getting Overeem, bendo, and sterling.

They also have prospects making their debuts later this year one next year. Bellator has all the tools to become the wcw to UFCs wwe. They could be the showtime to UFCs HBO boxing.

Idk if they will ever be number one, but I can see competition getting stiff as fuck in a couple of years.
See, that's where we disagree. I want that to happen, I just don't think we'll see it get to that point.

They first need to get to Strikeforce's level, which won't be easy considering all the notable Strikeforce guys are now in the UFC, and many of them are champs or championship contenders, making a return to Coker less likely.

I think it could take 5 years just to get this promotion on the level of prime Strikeforce - UNLESS this lawsuit by the fighters really forces change to the extent Zuffa can't lock down the elite fighters at every weight class. If that happens, then yes, your vision is definitely possible, but we're talking about game-changing judgments that essentially break the Zuffa monopsony. I think that's what we all want, but I bet all this lawsuit will do is simply make Zuffa more crafty at protecting their monopsony. They'll make some tweaks to appease some folks, then pretty much go back to what they were doing before.
 

FadeToBlack

Rear Naked Poke
Mar 15, 2015
1,459
2,614
No, they were always that good- some people just didn't finally believe it until now.

And if the UFC wasn't such a dick about co-promoting, we would have never had to wonder if their champions could beat the guys from Pride or Strikeforce or WEC. Thankfully Coker has proven to be a little more open minded about that.
Coker needs to be more open-minded about that. His best bet is to do all the things Zuffa has jettisoned - like in-cage sponsorships, co-promotion, etc. - because the fans demand it and there's money to be made by doing it and, right now, Zuffa isn't filling that void in the marketplace.
 

TheBigPygmy/JustinWren

Professional Fighter
Pro Fighter
Jan 24, 2015
222
514
As a Bellator fighter, and a hardcore MMA fan for 15 years, I love some of the things they are doing, and the direction they are headed. To be honest, feel like they care about the fighters in a different, and sincere way.