General Senate Judiciary Committee Report on Jan 6th

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Kingtony87

Batman
Feb 2, 2016
6,515
8,902
This is also not true. Apartheid was enacted by a minority. Countries like Ethiopia, Iraq and Zimbabwe were forced into dictatorships by minority groups. The Nazis were also a minority party in Germany before they murdered many of their political rivals and took advantage of a crisis to grow their popularity. The Red Scare was engineered by a small minority of members of Congress who staged a reign of terror to ruin people's lives. The "Gang of Four" in China used their influence as a committed minority to murder and imprison their political enemies. White minorities in parts of North and South Carolina and Oklahoma staged bloody riots to lynch and takeover cities run by black majorities. History and politics just aren't reducible to such simple just so tales and maxims. Few other countries have an analogous senate and somehow don't manage to annihilate minorities.
All of those things listed has been adopted and supported by the majority in their countries outside of apartheid which was propped up from outside that country. Which pales in comparison to what happened in Germany, China, Russian, Ukraine, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc. "Minorities in parts" is so insanely arbitrary. They may have been minority in that area but not those states. Every single movement at the tops is a small few. It's called the Pareto principle. Look at the muslims in china right now.

I also agree that few other countries has something similar to our senate. I am ok with that. There's no place on earth in literally all of human history that has been as egalitarian and as prosperous to minority groups as the one we currently live in. The senate is a big part of that.
 

Kingtony87

Batman
Feb 2, 2016
6,515
8,902
because you want to be one of the few people living in Wyoming, you get to dictate your desires to the majority of Americans living in other places?
so why draw those arbitrary lines. Let China or India dictate our global trade policy. Localism matters immensely. California should not be run the same way as Wyoming. States are free to make their own laws. The federal government should exists to protect the individual rights guaranteed in the constitutions to its citizens. Not dictate tax policy, law, and more for each state.
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
All of those things listed has been adopted and supported by the majority in their countries outside of apartheid which was propped up from outside that country. Which pales in comparison to what happened in Germany, China, Russian, Ukraine, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc. "Minorities in parts" is so insanely arbitrary. They may have been minority in that area but not those states. Every single movement at the tops is a small few. It's called the Pareto principle. Look at the muslims in china right now.

I also agree that few other countries has something similar to our senate. I am ok with that. There's no place on earth in literally all of human history that has been as egalitarian and as prosperous to minority groups as the one we currently live in. The senate is a big part of that.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand your reply. You say "they may have been minority in that area, but not those states." What are you referring to here? The whites in Zimbabwe and South Africa were absolutely minorities as were the Sunni in Iraq or the Tigrayans in Ethiopia. The Nazi party in Germany was also a small minority in the political sphere until they and their allies murdered many of their political rivals, allied with various nominally centrist groups to prosecute or execute many more and then won a slim majority that they built on through engineering or taking advantage of crises until they became the most popular party in Germany. The Gang of Four was a small faction within the Chinese communist party grappling for power within China following Mao's death after they'd already led a reign of terror that saw many of their political enemies beaten, imprisoned or executed. Eventually they were outmaneuvered and taken down once people snapped out of their fear. Similarly, the HUAC and the Senate Subcommittee on Internal Security were small minorities in congress led by rogue demagogues who forced witch hunts before they were finally corralled by a the majority standing up and saying this is madness. In the Jim Crow south there was no such condemnation of minority murder and rule until almost half a century later when a mass movement that was also deeply unpopular in the US rose up to combat it.

The pareto principle describes a small group of people (around 20%) usually leading an activity or movement toward something and 80% being "free riders" who go along letting that 20% do the work. This is not the same as minority domination of majorities or seizure of influence to take power.

Also, this notion that "no other place has been as egalitarian and prosperous" to minority groups is a crazy drink of the American exceptionalism kool aid. There are plenty of foreigners here on this forum who can tell you straight up what a joke that is.
 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
so why draw those arbitrary lines. Let China or India dictate our global trade policy. Localism matters immensely. California should not be run the same way as Wyoming. States are free to make their own laws. The federal government should exists to protect the individual rights guaranteed in the constitutions to its citizens. Not dictate tax policy, law, and more for each state.
The same constitution also empowers the federal government to dictate tax policy and laws for each state.
 

Kingtony87

Batman
Feb 2, 2016
6,515
8,902
I'm sorry, but I don't understand your reply. You say "they may have been minority in that area, but not those states." What are you referring to here? The whites in Zimbabwe and South Africa were absolutely minorities as were the Sunni in Iraq or the Tigrayans in Ethiopia. The Nazi party in Germany was also a small minority in the political sphere until they and their allies murdered many of their political rivals, allied with various nominally centrist groups to prosecute or execute many more and then won a slim majority that they built on through engineering or taking advantage of crises until they became the most popular party in Germany. The Gang of Four was a small faction within the Chinese communist party grappling for power within China following Mao's death after they'd already led a reign of terror that saw many of their political enemies beaten, imprisoned or executed. Eventually they were outmaneuvered and taken down once people snapped out of their fear. Similarly, the HUAC and the Senate Subcommittee on Internal Security were small minorities in congress led by rogue demagogues who forced witch hunts before they were finally corralled by a the majority standing up and saying this is madness. In the Jim Crow south there was no such condemnation of minority murder and rule until almost half a century later when a mass movement that was also deeply unpopular in the US rose up to combat it.

The pareto principle describes a small group of people (around 20%) usually leading an activity or movement toward something and 80% being "free riders" who go along letting that 20% do the work. This is not the same as minority domination of majorities or seizure of influence to take power.

Also, this notion that "no other place has been as egalitarian and prosperous" to minority groups is a crazy drink of the American exceptionalism kool aid. There are plenty of foreigners here on this forum who can tell you straight up what a joke that is.
Im replying to your certain minorities in areas of those states. Whites were not minorities in those states. Also yes in South Africa whites were a minority but they not when counted in the greater context of the United Kingdom who was propping them up and put them in power. Nazi's may have been a minority when they started. Of course they did nothing starts big. But they were overwhelming elected into power and then supported by the majority of Germany during their time of power.
 

Kingtony87

Batman
Feb 2, 2016
6,515
8,902
The same constitution also empowers the federal government to dictate tax policy and laws for each state.
Enumerated and limited powers. Read any of the federalist papers or anything written by the founding fathers and the behemoth we see today as our federal government far exceeds what was originally intended.
 

Kingtony87

Batman
Feb 2, 2016
6,515
8,902
Enumerated and limited powers. Read any of the federalist papers or anything written by the founding fathers and the behemoth we see today as our federal government far exceeds what was originally intended.
It didn't have the power to tax til 1913.
 

Kingtony87

Batman
Feb 2, 2016
6,515
8,902
I figured you'd dodge a yes or no question and throw out a non sequitur
are you high?

Would you dismiss this so easily if it had occurred the same exact way, only it was Hillary?

this is your question. I directly responded to your question.
The answer is yes our society responds the same exact way for multiple scandals including abuse of our federal agencies to undermine an election by moving on as it's no big deal.
 

Speaker to Animals

encephalopathetic
May 16, 2021
8,161
7,428
are you high?

Would you dismiss this so easily if it had occurred the same exact way, only it was Hillary?

this is your question. I directly responded to your question.
The answer is yes our society responds the same exact way for multiple scandals including abuse of our federal agencies to undermine an election by moving on as it's no big deal.
Your direct response to my yes or no question was to ask a question.
And then you answered a question you weren't asked.
?
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
Ignore what happened that day.

Would you dismiss this so easily if it had occurred the same exact way, only it was Hillary?

I believe the answer is "No, it would be very important to explore what happened and make sure it doesn't again."

That would be honest.
I think that's a fair position. But that's a far cry from the "Let's get a bunch of hearsay witnesses so we can punish our political enemies." which is what this has been.
 

Kingtony87

Batman
Feb 2, 2016
6,515
8,902
Your direct response to my yes or no question was to ask a question.
And then you answered a question you weren't asked.
?
Apologies. I answered your question for a broad audience because we have literally seen it play out instead of just for myself.

Here's my direct answer. Yes. I and many other people have moved past it and easier than we probably should have.
 

Speaker to Animals

encephalopathetic
May 16, 2021
8,161
7,428
I think that's a fair position. But that's a far cry from the "Let's get a bunch of hearsay witnesses so we can punish our political enemies." which is what this has been.
I've been getting a ton of information from it, and have no reason to doubt these testimonies.
What it all leads to is a different story, but the point here is to send a message: if it happens, there will be a fact finding process and punishments to inhibit future political riots.

It sounded like Trump was well pleased with those events, as opposed to being horrified.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
I've been getting a ton of information from it, and have no reason to doubt these testimonies.
What it all leads to is a different story, but the point here is to send a message: if it happens, there will be a fact finding process and punishments to inhibit future political riots.

It sounded like Trump was well pleased with those events, as opposed to being horrified.
If what "happens"?
 

Speaker to Animals

encephalopathetic
May 16, 2021
8,161
7,428
If what "happens"?
A riot at the capital for the pleasure of a power mad president.
The embarrassment of it happening, and the president that seemingly wanted it to go on, the pompous ass who didn't even bother himself to address the Nation.

You knew that's what I meant, so I'm biting your verbal hook.
 

BeardOfKnowledge

The Most Consistent Motherfucker You Know
Jul 22, 2015
60,547
56,268
A riot at the capital for the pleasure of a power mad president.
The embarrassment of it happening, and the president that seemingly wanted it to go on, the pompous ass who didn't even bother himself to address the Nation.

You knew that's what I meant, so I'm biting your verbal hook.
No, I actually didn't. Reading you post again understanding the context:

 

kneeblock

Drapetomaniac
Apr 18, 2015
12,435
23,026
Enumerated and limited powers. Read any of the federalist papers or anything written by the founding fathers and the behemoth we see today as our federal government far exceeds what was originally intended.
Enumerated powers means specific powers delegated to Congress, it doesn't mean there is a set number of powers that the federal government and they can't go past that limit. It refers to the powers invested in Congress by Article 1, specifically section 8, which has an important clause you may have heard of, sometimes called the elastic clause, which says:

Article I, Section 8, Clause 18:

[The Congress shall have Power . . . ] To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

If you'd like to go round and round on the Federalist papers or other texts by the founders, we can. I think you'll find they had far grander visions than you imagine. But even if they didn't, who cares? It's not their country anymore, it's the people's.
 

Speaker to Animals

encephalopathetic
May 16, 2021
8,161
7,428
Again, I ask the simple yes or no question to those dismissing this as only political theater: would you be similarly dismissive had all the same circumstances occurred under a Hillary administration?

I think the answer is no. I think the answers are different and there's a fair amount of hypocrisy about this.