Do u think Kimbo/Shamrock was a work?

[MMAHAWK]

As in any crime, you need to examine the motive. Ken is as popular as Kimbo, if not more--why not make him the work winner?

If Kimbo can't legitimately beat Ken, what's the point? He will lose to just about anyone else he faces, unless all of his fights are going to be works, right up until he fights for the title. Kimbo was never good at takedown defense, and now that he's older and slower, he has no TDD.

You can say work about any fight. Why did Cain conveniently slip his head into Werdum's guillotine on a very telegraphed shot? WORK!

WTF

Exactly I guess that's how it works

Cain comes out balls to the wall
Cain drop Werdum early
Werdum gains a little momentum as rd 1 ends

Round 2
Both fighters exchange shots
Cain is taken down obviously for shock value
As round ends Cain is gassed sure he is he has never gassed in 5 rounds now he is in 2 gtfo

Round 3
Corner of Cain is clearly in on the work
They call for a "takedown"
That was clearly code for its time to end the show
Cain a man never submitted give Werdum his neck and never fights to get out.
Obvious work

Don't even get me started on Rothwell vs Mitrione
I mean shit
Clean worked takedown to the quickest tap in MMA history on a move with no name.

 

[MMAHAWK]

A promoter offers a fighter a bonus if they don't take an opponent down and to play directly into that opponents strength and that's not an attempt at a work? Seriously?

UFC had KO of the night bonus. For 150 events were all those works too. How about sub of the night clearly calling for takedowns. Also how many fighter have said "I wanted to keep it standing and give the fans a fight so I can win a bonus"

 

[Zeph]

A promoter offers a fighter a bonus if they don't take an opponent down and to play directly into that opponents strength and that's not an attempt at a work? Seriously?

You are confusing works and fixes. Fixing a fight doesn't involve both fighters knowledge, but a work does. Either way it wasn't either, since Seth knocked him out, so any fix failed, and no one in their right mind would suggest they orchestrated a work for Seth to win.

 

[Narcosynthesis]

You are confusing works and fixes. Fixing a fight doesn't involve both fighters knowledge, but a work does. Either way it wasn't either, since Seth knocked him out, so any fix failed, and no one in their right mind would suggest they orchestrated a work for Seth to win.

You're confusing an attempt at a work with a successful work. EliteXC tried to put Kimbo in the most advantageous position they could for him to get a KO, going so far as to pay his opponent to not take him down and it backfired. Promoters should NEVER be in the business of paying a fighter to make it easier for their opponent.

 

[Zeph]

You're confusing an attempt at a work with a successful work. EliteXC tried to put Kimbo in the most advantageous position they could for him to get a KO, going so far as to pay his opponent to not take him down and it backfired. Promoters should NEVER be in the business of paying a fighter to make it easier for their opponent.

I agree, but that isn't a work. A work involves both fighters, that is an attempt at a fix, and is a terrible thing for a promotion to do. Regardless of that though, they failed, and Seth knocked Kimbo out, so it wasn't a fixed fight or a work.

 

[ThatOneDude]

A promoter offers a fighter a bonus if they don't take an opponent down and to play directly into that opponents strength and that's not an attempt at a work? Seriously?

No, that's an attempt to have an "exciting" fight the casuals would like. Fucked up, yes. Work, no.

 

[Narcosynthesis]

No, that's an attempt to have an "exciting" fight the casuals would like. Fucked up, yes. Work, no.

First off, it wasn't an attempt to have an "exciting" fight. It was an attempt to put the the fighter they wanted to win in the best possible scenario to do so by rigging the fight and handicapping his opponent. The matchmakers are responsible for making exciting fights by putting two fighters together that's going to give them the best chance to get the fight they want, based on their skill levels and fight history.

edit: Also, would you be interested in a fight where you knew a fighter was paid to not utilize all their skills?

 

[Jonny Quest]

Lol Kimbo gave him full neck, put both hands in the mat, and hammed it up Hogan style and a 30 year sub master couldnt close the deal on a white belt move lol. It is amazing anyone even believes this. Hahaha

 

[Jonny Quest]

Shamrocks excuse is a fucking joke too. He said he thought Kimbo tapped, so he readjusted blah blah blah. If anyone knows Ken Shamrock that mother fucker would have been yelling and hollaring at Big John and everyone else post fight interview that he tapped he tapped he tapped. He didnt say shit. His post fight talk wasnt and excuses arent even Shamrock.

 

[Narcosynthesis]

Lol Kimbo gave him full neck, put both hands in the mat, and hammed it up Hogan style and a 30 year sub master couldnt close the deal on a white belt move lol. It is amazing anyone even believes this. Hahaha

I think it's more a case of not wanting to believe it.

If they had stood and exchanged punches the entire time and Kimbo KO'ed Shamrock then I could have went along with that. The fact that Shamrock took him down with one of the laziest, slowest and sloppiest take downs I've ever witnessed and then couldn't finish despite having Kimbo in a full, under the chin choke makes me believe it was a work.

I can't remember too many times I've seen someone not be able to get the submission in that position. I've seen Bendo get out of a few crazy chokes but Kimbo isn't Bendo when it comes to submission defense.

 

[ThatOneDude]

First off, it wasn't an attempt to have an "exciting" fight. It was an attempt to put the the fighter they wanted to win in the best possible scenario to do so by rigging the fight and handicapping his opponent. The matchmakers are responsible for making exciting fights by putting two fighters together that's going to give them the best chance to get the fight they want, based on their skill levels and fight history.

edit: Also, would you be interested in a fight where you knew a fighter was paid to not utilize all their skills?

No I wouldn't, but I also don't consider myself a casual fan.

 

[ThatOneDude]

Shamrocks excuse is a fucking joke too. He said he thought Kimbo tapped, so he readjusted blah blah blah. If anyone knows Ken Shamrock that mother fucker would have been yelling and hollaring at Big John and everyone else post fight interview that he tapped he tapped he tapped. He didnt say shit. His post fight talk wasnt and excuses arent even Shamrock.

Or he's a old dude who didn't like getting punched in the head.

 

[teamquestnorth]

Out of 7 mma fights Kimbo has had 3 that are questionable.

1. October 4, 2008, Seth Petruzelli - This was a blatant attempt at a work but it backfired. Seth was a last minute replacement for Shamrock the first time Kimbo and Shamrock were supposed to fight in EliteXC. After Seth KO'ed Kimbo he stated Elite asked him to not take Kimbo down and keep it standing. He said he was offered a bonus if he kept it standing. Of course it backfired on them and I'm glad it did.

2. December 5, 2009, Houston Alexander - This fight was a complete work with C-level, horrible acting. This was the last time Houston ever fought in the UFC, by the way. Even the UFC knew it was a work, whether they knew beforehand is debatable.

3. June 19, 2015, Ken Shamrock - This fight was simply an easy money fight for everyone involved. Neither Kimbo or Shamrock had fought in 5 years. This was a fight Bellator dreamed up because they knew people would be naive enough to buy the card solely based on fighter name recognition.

Anyone who watched the fight should immediately be questioning how Ken got that sloppy, slow take down. The only way it happens is if Kimbo was following the script. It was the first major move of the fight to add "authenticity" for the rest of the work. Ken, the submission specialist, had to take him down and apply a submission at some point or the fight would have been less believable and when you're going to work a fight, building up drama is always best if the actors are capable of doing so.

So Kimbo gives Ken his neck and it's a tight choke, under Kimbo's neck but Ken somehow loses his grip (oh the drama) and has to let up on the choke (he probably realized he was choking Kimbo too hard and that wasn't part of the script). Kimbo survives the choke by sheer will power and submission defense and finally they get back to standing. Kimbo then lands a punch in which the ref immediately runs over to stop the fight.

The Bo Cantrell fight was suspicious too. I remember alot of uproar about that one at the time

 

[ThatOneDude]

OK let me ask this. Who's the one setting up the works for these fights?

 

[La Paix]

OK let me ask this. Who's the one setting up the works for these fights?

Yakuza

 

[ThatOneDude]

Yakuza

And the next question, why?

 

[Narcosynthesis]

OK let me ask this. Who's the one setting up the works for these fights?

For the Shamrock/Kimbo fight the both of them had it scripted. I can't say whether Bellator knew beforehand, although there is more to gain by having Kimbo win, simply because they can milk a few more "exciting" stand up fights out of him as opposed to 51 year old Shamrock who has a boring ground fighting style.

 

[ThatOneDude]

For the Shamrock/Kimbo fight the both of them had it scripted. I can't say whether Bellator knew beforehand, although there is more to gain by having Kimbo win, simply because they can milk a few more "exciting" stand up fights out of him as opposed to 51 year old Shamrock who has a boring ground fighting style.

So you think they did it on their own?

 

[Narcosynthesis]

So you think they did it on their own?

Possibly. All I can say is they both knew the script. Who's to say Shamrock didn't bet against himself and make a ton of money. Would be easy to do.

 

[ThatOneDude]

Possibly. All I can say is they both knew the script. Who's to say Shamrock didn't bet against himself and make a ton of money. Would be easy to do.

Would be easy to do and easy to figure out. Risk worth the reward?

 

[dacofty]

Im sure you guys have seen Joe Rogan's take on thefight and I have to agree. Ken didnt try to throw a punch when he had Kimbo down nor did he perform the correct RNC

 

[Jonny Quest]

Or he's a old dude who didn't like getting punched in the head.

Yeah, good job ignoring all of the evidence, and repeating "old man" over and over.

 

[ThatOneDude]

Yeah, good job ignoring all of the evidence, and repeating "old man" over and over.

I'm just going with the thought that the simplest explanation is normally right.

Nothing definitive has been said that shows it was a work. It's all been opinion.

 

[Jonny Quest]

What is really staggering is there are a shit load of people in the mma community, Joe Rogan, Vinny Mag, many other pros, writers, who think it was a definite fix, and besides for this board the majority of people on other forums think it was a fix. Yet, on here, the hatred of the UFC is so dense that some people arent even suspect of a fixed fight. They dont even question its authenticity, and will make up shit like "Joe Rogan is just a shill for the UFC" type shit. The reason this thread exists and many others across the internet is because almost everyone who watched it, even people who never watch mma, are saying it looked like a total fake fight. For someone to watch it and not even be suspect of a fix is baffeling.

 

[dacofty]

My answer to the entire fight is, both looked like its time to be put out in the pasture, Kimbo would get mauled by Seth or anyone, Hell im against Phil Brooks but I think even he destroys Kimbo.