British brothers and sisters, y'all wearing poppies or nah?

[Zeph]

Maybe someone could explain this to me just on a basic logic level. I've seen all the documentaries, I know all the theories because I was a big conspiracy guy when I was younger. I just want to ask this to the Truthers.

For the sake of argument, let us grant the facts that the government wanted the middle east war badly and they were willing to act unethically to get into it (including perpetrating a false flag and potentially spilling innocent American blood).

What's the logic behind undertaking such an intricate conspiracy involving so many moving parts and so many individuals that would have to be party to murdering thousands of Americans, when the result of justifying a war could be done in much simpler ways? Ways that wouldn't make the president and all his men look like they failed to keep America safe?

The average Joe has no idea what the C.I.A does. Couldn't they have falsified some intelligence about potential terrorist activities? Maybe bought off the press to support the war?

And question 2, why is it that the same government that perpetrated this GENIUS, highly detailed conspiracy false flag... just threw their hands up in the air and said "whoopsie" when they couldn't find the WMD's they were searching for? I mean to pull off 9/11 as an inside job, you have to have so many people in league with you and you have to have so much power and ingenuity... yet you can't even falsify a report that you found a WMD to justify your war? Maybe planted a couple there?

There were plenty of terrorism acts preceding 9/11 against American targets in the 90s, but none of them were justification to go to war. Something much larger will galvanize a population though.

I'm watching it right now. I wouldn't say there is much potential to change my perspective on the US government.

This documentary is pretty damning though. I can't watch it all tonight. Once I've finished watching, I'll read rebuttals.

In summary, so far the following facts are pretty much indisputable:

* The US had numerous credible sources informing them that Al Quaeda were planning to hijack aircraft and fly them into US landmarks. Confirmed sources were UK's MI6, German intelligence and Putin.

* War games with the air force caused confusion. Despite the attacks occurring, the war games were not cancelled. This was officially put down as incompetence but those responsible were not disciplined and were in fact promoted.

* The timing of Dick Cheney entering the PEOC is fabricated in the official report.

* The alleged pilots were very poor and had no experience in commercial aircraft, yet they all performed highly skillful maneuvers.

None of this so far is proof of a false flag but it does show some kind of cover up.

It's what I was saying, I don't know if it was an inside job, but there are a lot of questions that need proper answers.

 

[Masato Toys]

At the very least, its not a stretch to say that the Commission Report, NIST, and the Mainstream coverage/investigative journalism on and since 9/11 were all a complete farce.

They didn't even begin the 'investigation' until OVER A YEAR after the event; by then all the crime scenes had been cleaned up/evidence removed, and war was well underway.

Bush/Cheney never even officially testified, Kissenger was the 1st pick to lead the investigation FFS until people screamed no. Neither the Comission nor NIST gave a passing glance at even the POSSIBILITY of planted explosives. WTC 7 was never discussed after a few initial media fuckups - complete blackout... & no one ever questions the complete lack of evidence of a plane @ Pentagon and Shanksville, etc etc etc

Mainstream Media complicity/silence to me is even scarier than the notion of an inside job. Those 'journalists' had a virtual playground of leads to follow and crack, but they ALL stuck to the script.

 

[ThatOneDude]

Watch the youtube video then.

I did

 

[La Paix]

That's a weird (but interesting) trip man... my experiences were not like that, I always made a strong effort to not let fear be a part of the equation when doing psychedelics. Was about the LOVE, man

Its cool to hear that you came out of it though, and eventually rose to higher-circuit experiences. Must have been some epic adventures

Is there a thread in here about psychedelics? Don't want to get off topic.

The 9/11 as a method of mass-brainwashing is really interesting to me.

I got a hug from the universe!!! | The MMA Community Forum

 

[Chief]

I don't think there is . And @Chief sorry for derailing your thread bro

Definitely not a problem. Threads are for discussion and I like when they are organic.

 

[Masato Toys]

^^ Don't get me started on 'Organic'

what was this thread about again?

 

[ThatOneDude]

That's a good question. I also wonder, if it was all planned out as a false flag, why they didn't more specifically pin it on Iraq, as that was clearly the intended goal, not just Afghanistan. Maybe it wasn't entirely planned, but rather perhaps a partially real terror attack that was taken advantage of and expanded upon in a scramble (?).

This is what I tend to believe, also adding handled poorly in there.

 

[ThatOneDude]

I'm watching it right now. I wouldn't say there is much potential to change my perspective on the US government.

This documentary is pretty damning though. I can't watch it all tonight. Once I've finished watching, I'll read rebuttals.

In summary, so far the following facts are pretty much indisputable:

* The US had numerous credible sources informing them that Al Quaeda were planning to hijack aircraft and fly them into US landmarks. Confirmed sources were UK's MI6, German intelligence and Putin.

* War games with the air force caused confusion. Despite the attacks occurring, the war games were not cancelled. This was officially put down as incompetence but those responsible were not disciplined and were in fact promoted.

* The timing of Dick Cheney entering the PEOC is fabricated in the official report.

* The alleged pilots were very poor and had no experience in commercial aircraft, yet they all performed highly skillful maneuvers.

None of this so far is proof of a false flag but it does show some kind of cover up.

This is again more along the lines of how I think. I don't think they did controlled demos to take the towers down, the whole rabbit hole is what I can't agree with.

 

[Masato Toys]

Has anyone here had a listen to the theories of Judy Wood?

 

[Wild]

I used to be the guy that would post tin foil hat memes when people discussed CT's. I would tell people they were crazy...our Govt would never do anything like that, etc. I was that guy. I either didn't want to hear it, or was too lazy to do my own research.

That all changed with 9/11. After researching it, and listening to the SCIENCE. Forget everything else and just focus on the science. I am 100% convinced 9/11 was an inside job and controlled demolition was used to take down the Towers & Building 7. There is just simply too much scientific evidence that disproves the Govt's theory, and science has no bias & it doesn't lie. Molton steel, 6" beams folded up like that, projectiles shooting 50'-100' out from the building, three skyscrapers going down in their own footprint, etc, etc.

I still think a lot of CT's are nonsense, but 9/11 was an attack by our Govt on it's own citizens so they could go to war w/ Iraq. No doubt in my mind. And I hope there's a special place in hell for all parties involved.

 

[ThatOneDude]

I used to be the guy that would post tin foil hat memes when people discussed CT's. I would tell people they were crazy...our Govt would never do anything like that, etc. I was that guy. I either didn't want to hear it, or was too lazy to do my own research.

That all changed with 9/11. After researching it, and listening to the SCIENCE. Forget everything else and just focus on the science. I am 100% convinced 9/11 was an inside job and controlled demolition was used to take down the Towers & Building 7. There is just simply too much scientific evidence that disproves the Govt's theory, and science has no bias & it doesn't lie. Molton steel, 6" beams folded up like that, projectiles shooting 50'-100' out from the building, three skyscrapers going down in their own footprint, etc, etc.

I still think a lot of CT's are nonsense, but 9/11 was an attack by our Govt on it's own citizens so they could go to war w/ Iraq. No doubt in my mind. And I hope there's a special place in hell for all parties involved.

Did you read the numerous sited examples that show the science why that's not the case?

 

[Wild]

Did you read the numerous sited examples that show the science why that's not the case?

Point me to them my man. But it better show me how a 6" thick steel beam gets folded into a horseshoe, molten steel pouring out of the towers before they went down, pools of molten steel in the rubble, and fires that burned at 1800 deg or hotter for 3 months.

 

[ThatOneDude]

Point me to them my man. But it better show me how a 6" thick steel beam gets folded into a horseshoe, molten steel pouring out of the towers before they went down, pools of molten steel in the rubble, and fires that burned at 1800 deg or hotter for 3 months.

A number of them are all in this thread a few pages back

 

[jason73]

Leigh, 3 buildings came down from two planes. No plane hit the third building. They blame the collapse partially on debris hitting the WTC 7 BUT the main reason was due to normal office fires they say.

So normal office fires brought down the WTC 7 at free fall speed. Yes the building was on fire for hours but there have been many other skyscrapers that were burning for much longer that didn't even collapse. In fact, no skyscraper has ever collapsed due to fires before and post 9/11 apart from the three that happened at the same place on the same day.

yet one of the terrorists passport flew through the explosions and fires,fell 100 stories and was found unharmed on the ground

 

[Masato Toys]

^ haha that passport bit was the icing on the cake lol

Be careful not to jump to the 'inside job = government' conclusion; just because some key people on the inside may have been complicit does not mean the whole government planned it etc. Mossad for me is still a major suspect.

 

[Wild]

Thousands of camera's at Boston Logan and JFK, and yet not one "terrorist" was captured on video checking in, going thru security, walking thru the terminal, sitting at the gate, boarding the plane, etc.

If any of us got into a scuffle inside of an airport, they would have hours of video to trace our steps that led up to the event. Yet they didn't capture 19 middle eastern guys on video for 1 second? C'mon....

 

[Masato Toys]

^ same with the Pentagon on 9/11; supposedly something like 36 security cameras in the area were all seized, ALL of which would have clearly captured the jumbo jetliner coming in for impact.

NONE have been released to this day, save for those few pitiful frames they released years later, which doesn't even show a plane, lol

 

[BeardOfKnowledge]

Thousands of camera's at Boston Logan and JFK, and yet not one "terrorist" was captured on video checking in, going thru security, walking thru the terminal, sitting at the gate, boarding the plane, etc.

If any of us got into a scuffle inside of an airport, they would have hours of video to trace our steps that led up to the event. Yet they didn't capture 19 middle eastern guys on video for 1 second? C'mon....

Pre-9/11 anyone could walk into a terminal. They didn't have anywhere near the same level of surveillance and even today you don't need to get your own ticket. It isn't at all inconceivable there might not be clear footage, People forget that there was a time that the airport scene in Home Alone 2 was plausible. It's also possible there were other people involved we aren't being told about, and that's why there isn't released surveillance footage.

 

[SAJ]

Pre-9/11 anyone could walk into a terminal. They didn't have anywhere near the same level of surveillance and even today you don't need to get your own ticket. It isn't at all inconceivable there might not be clear footage, People forget that there was a time that the airport scene in Home Alone 2 was plausible. It's also possible there were other people involved we aren't being told about, and that's why there isn't released surveillance footage.

In 2001 they still had cameras everywhere in an Airport. We've never seen any proof of the 19 hijackers entering the airport or boarding the planes.

 

[BeardOfKnowledge]

If I remember the fallen, I will remember them as the poor fucks who were tricked by propaganda into giving their lives so that rich fucks could play their grand chessboard with their blood. I mourn with pity not honor, these soldiers were just like you and me, only didn't have access to any information to investigate the claims that their conscription was built on.

That's supposed to be the point of Remembrance. To remember those who laid down their lives for what they believed to be just. Not to look back some 70 years later and criticize them for not having a massive access to information we enjoy today. Showing respect for people's lives needlessly thrown away and questioning authorities actions for war don't need to be mutually exclusive of each other.

 

[BeardOfKnowledge]

In 2001 they still had cameras everywhere in an Airport. We've never seen any proof of the 19 hijackers entering the airport or boarding the planes.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but please read the entire post. I just gave you a pretty reasonable explanation for why we might not be getting handed the surveillance videos.

 

[ThatOneDude]

I'm not trying to be a dick, but please read the entire post. I just gave you a pretty reasonable explanation for why we might not be getting handed the surveillance videos.

You're talking to a wall. He was given a massive amount of reading that clearly and concisely explains why the towers were brought down..... I haven't even seen him mention that.

 

[Ted Williams' head]

You're talking to a wall. He was given a massive amount of reading that clearly and concisely explains why the towers were brought down..... I haven't even seen him mention that.

A conspiracy nut will always disregard any and all information that goes against what they want to believe. I know this as a former conspiracy nut. Everything that confirms my belief is gospel, everything that goes against it is bad info being circulated by the maaaaan and "sheeple" who are blind to the truth.

Every one of these conspiracy discussions go the same way: if 5 conspiracy guys and 5 skeptics walk in, then 5 conspiracy guys and 5 skeptics will walk out. Nobody is going to change their views. People believe what they want to.

 

[Ted Williams' head]

In 2001 they still had cameras everywhere in an Airport. We've never seen any proof of the 19 hijackers entering the airport or boarding the planes.

 

[canofsticks]

Returning to this thread after two days to find it's topic has now spiraled into a 9/11 conspiracy conversation.