General Democratic 2020 Election Watch

Welcome to our Community
Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to Sign Up today.
Sign up

Zeph

TMMAC Addict
Jan 22, 2015
22,898
30,016
So Bernie is leading the latest Des Moines Iowa poll by 3 points. The person who has won that equivalent poll has gone on to be he nominee in the last 6 races. Bernie is the front runner. Biden's brainworms have caught up to him and he's 4th.
 

Hauler

Unknown Member
Feb 3, 2016
27,458
37,993
So Bernie is leading the latest Des Moines Iowa poll by 3 points. The person who has won that equivalent poll has gone on to be he nominee in the last 6 races. Bernie is the front runner. Biden's brainworms have caught up to him and he's 4th.
It's hard to believe that the Dems found the ONLY person in 2016 who couldn't beat Trump.

And 4 years later after doing nothing but bitch and complain about everything he's done, they still don't have anyone that poses a significant threat to him in 2020.

Trump would destroy Bernie.
With a strong economy and outstanding unemployment numbers, you aren't going to remove the sitting president with a hardcore socialist.
 
Last edited:

Zeph

TMMAC Addict
Jan 22, 2015
22,898
30,016
It's hard ro believe that the Dems found the ONLY person in 2016 who couldn't beat Trump.

And 4 years later after doing nothing but bitch and complain about everything he's done, they still don't have anyone that poses a significant threat to him in 2020.

Trump would destroy Bernie.
With a strong economy and outstanding unemployment numbers, you aren't going to remove the sitting president with a hardcore socialist.
The numbers used to claim those things are fudges at best. The material conditions of the voters who won Trump the presidency are unchanged at best or worse for most. Employment is at record high levels because they fudge those numbers, by removing long term out of work from the overall calculation, as well people in education, and people are working more jobs to make ends meet. The stock market is doing well because companies are doing stock buybacks will the tax cuts that Trump has given them. This artificially bumps their stock making the stock options for the executives more lucrative - this happened under Bush too when he did similar policies and was followed by a correction. Regardless, the stock market has little reflection on the lives of most voters, it's great for hedge fund managers, wall street brokers, and the mega rich, but immaterial for most of Amercia.
 

Hauler

Unknown Member
Feb 3, 2016
27,458
37,993
the numbers used to claim those things are judges at best, the material conditions of the voterms who won Trump the presidency are unchanged at best or worse for most. Employment is at record high levels because they fudge those numbers and people are working more jobs to make ends meet. The stock market is doing well because companies are doing stock buybacks will the tax cuts that Trump has given them. This artificially bumps their stock making the stock options for the executives more lucrative - this happened under Bush too when he did similar policies and was followed by a correction. Regardless, the stock market has little reflection on the lives of most voters, it's great for hedge fund managers, wall street brokers, and the mega rich, but immaterial for most of Amercia.
The stock market is a reflection on the economy. I give Trump very little credit for its strength as the market is a fickle beast, but when things are going good people aren't out looking for change.

Employment is at record high levels because everyone who wants a job, has a job. Nothing is being hidden in the figures. It's reality.
Part of my job is to hire people and I can tell you it is damn near impossible to find people right now. When I talk with my colleagues around the country, they all say the same thing. Posting jobs and picking the best candidate out of a group of applicants doesn't work anymore. You have to actively recruit and lure people away from their current job by offering better pay and improved benefits.

Wherever you are getting your US employment information couldn't be more wrong. If you seek truth and not just a bolstering of your current beliefs, I'd seek another news source.
 
Last edited:

regular john

Interim Champion
May 21, 2015
4,847
6,364
hardcore socialist.
is Bernie proposing expropriation of private companies?

. The stock market is a reflection on the economy.
I’m not going to pretend that I know how american economy works but if it has any resemblance to anything I’ve ever studied that’s not true at all.

The stock market reflects the financial system’s trust on the companies that have stocks in the market. In modern times the financial system revolves around money reproducing itself which is done by speculation. it doesn’t have anything to do with industrial activity and job opportunities which is what a national economy relies on.

the stock market is more an opponent than a reflector of national economies. The media tries to convince the general public that their lives depend on the market’s mood like “ the market “ is a living entity but it barely affects real people lives
 

Hauler

Unknown Member
Feb 3, 2016
27,458
37,993
The media tries to convince the general public that their lives depend on the market’s mood like “ the market “ is a living entity but it barely affects real people lives
So why did the crash of 1929 create so much havoc?
 

Hauler

Unknown Member
Feb 3, 2016
27,458
37,993
is Bernie proposing expropriation of private companies?
Not that I've heard.
Although comments like "there shouldn't be any billionaires" raises an eyebrow. And his comments on a wealth tax - taxing money that was already earned (and already taxed as income) is also a very slippery slope.

10 Years After: Tax the rich. Feed the poor. Until there ain't no rich no more.
Hmm. Uh oh. Then what do we do?

I'd like for a candidate to focus on wasteful spending in Washington instead of targeting the low-hanging fruit by vilifying the rich.
 

regular john

Interim Champion
May 21, 2015
4,847
6,364
So why did the crash of 1929 create so much havoc?
because back then we had industrial capitalism; now we have financial capitalism.

Industrial capitalism was ruthless and unfair but at least it relied on factories producing stuff and thus it created jobs; financial capitalism is just money creating more money that doesn’t really exists. it relies on credit and speculation and actually constrains job creation because business men have no incentive to build a factory and make something. it’s much easier to invest their money and watch it reproduce itself.
 

regular john

Interim Champion
May 21, 2015
4,847
6,364
BTW I had to finish the other post in a hurry because I had three young women in bikinis rushing me to go to the beach.

saying that “the market“ “barely affects real people’s lives” is not exactly accurate because the way everything is tied up, an angry tweet from Trump makes oil prices go up which makes gas price go up which makes food price go up and so on.

but the point is that it didn’t need to be that way. if there was the slightest regulation of capitals flowing through the world and they were properly taxed and billionaires couldn’t stash obscene fortunes in fiscal paradises, money wouldn’t have such a stronghold on the people.
 

Hauler

Unknown Member
Feb 3, 2016
27,458
37,993
because back then we had industrial capitalism; now we have financial capitalism.

Industrial capitalism was ruthless and unfair but at least it relied on factories producing stuff and thus it created jobs; financial capitalism is just money creating more money that doesn’t really exists. it relies on credit and speculation and actually constrains job creation because business men have no incentive to build a factory and make something. it’s much easier to invest their money and watch it reproduce itself.
I wish my money would reproduce on its own.
 

regular john

Interim Champion
May 21, 2015
4,847
6,364
I wish my money would reproduce on its own.
of course it doesn’t. IF you’re fortunate enough to be able to save a little bit of money each month then you’ll only have access to a regular fund with tiny interest rate while billionaires have access to much more friendly funds and if they’re big enough they even invest in developing countries’ public debt system with gigantic interest rates. What puzzles me is why you’re standing up for billionaires in your post above.
 

Hauler

Unknown Member
Feb 3, 2016
27,458
37,993
of course it doesn’t. IF you’re fortunate enough to be able to save a little bit of money each month then you’ll only have access to a regular fund with tiny interest rate while billionaires have access to much more friendly funds and if they’re big enough they even invest in developing countries’ public debt system with gigantic interest rates. What puzzles me is why you’re standing up for billionaires in your post above.
I'm not standing up for anyone.
Nor am I vilifying them.

The politicians don't want to take their money and give it to you or me. They want to take it to pad their own pockets and those of their cronies.

At least the billionaires "earned" it. Some of them anyway.
 

Splinty

Shake 'em off
Admin
Dec 31, 2014
35,511
72,550
Although comments like "there shouldn't be any billionaires" raises an eyebrow. A
There are mathematical reasons that billionaires probably represent a symptom of systemic problems. But most of the left does a shit job of selling this beyond hate of rich.

What really matters is that X percent being so far beyond the median eventually represents NOT production. It matters if someone is making money without production. If so, then we need to reexamine the system and tax and pay.
Capitalism needs to reward output not just positioning.

You and I are making data for amazon and/or Google right now. Where's our share of the work? How can you realistically opt out?

kneeblock @Kneeblock does a better job than Bernie in discussing why people siphoning off and centralizing stagnant capital is a problem.

I tire of the demonizing of "them" (Bernie calling a million in salary or wealth "millionaires" interchangeably so lazy) but centralizing too much capital is an inefficient use of that capital. And it's also anti-capitalism as much as monopolies. It breeds instability, boom and bust, and eventually slows the economy with contraction.
 

Hauler

Unknown Member
Feb 3, 2016
27,458
37,993
There are mathematical reasons that billionaires probably represent a symptom of systemic problems. But most of the left does a shit job of selling this beyond hate of rich.

What really matters is that X percent being so far beyond the median eventually represents NOT production. It matters if someone is making money without production. If so, then we need to reexamine the system and tax and pay.
Capitalism needs to reward output not just positioning.

You and I are making data for amazon and/or Google right now. Where's our share of the work? How can you realistically opt out?

kneeblock @Kneeblock does a better job than Bernie in discussing why people siphoning off and centralizing stagnant capital is a problem.

I tire of the demonizing of "them" (Bernie calling a million in salary or wealth "millionaires" interchangeably so lazy) but centralizing too much capital is an inefficient use of that capital. And it's also anti-capitalism as much as monopolies. It breeds instability, boom and bust, and eventually slows the economy with contraction.
So punish the rich by double-taxing their wealth?

Limit the amount of funds a person can earn interest on?

Increase capital gains tax?

How do you target the uber rich without also targetting hard-working Americans who are responsible with their money?