General Democratic 2020 Election Watch

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regular john

Interim Champion
May 21, 2015
4,847
6,364
There are mathematical reasons that billionaires probably represent a symptom of systemic problems. But most of the left does a shit job of selling this beyond hate of rich.

What really matters is that X percent being so far beyond the median eventually represents NOT production. It matters if someone is making money without production. If so, then we need to reexamine the system and tax and pay.
Capitalism needs to reward output not just positioning.

You and I are making data for amazon and/or Google right now. Where's our share of the work? How can you realistically opt out?

kneeblock @Kneeblock does a better job than Bernie in discussing why people siphoning off and centralizing stagnant capital is a problem.

I tire of the demonizing of "them" (Bernie calling a million in salary or wealth "millionaires" interchangeably so lazy) but centralizing too much capital is an inefficient use of that capital. And it's also anti-capitalism as much as monopolies. It breeds instability, boom and bust, and eventually slows the economy with contraction.
Centralizing obscene amounts of money, rewarding non-production and constraining national economies is exactly what the current economic system promotes.

There are some striking statistics like 1% of the top rich own 99% of the wealth of the world and the top 0.1% own more than the bottom 50%. This book is a great read - "The Age of Unproductive Capital" by Ladislau Dowbor who is a former UN economic advisor - http://dowbor.org/blog/wp-content/u...-Release-The-Age-of-Unproductive-Capital.docx

Those people aren't even able to spend their money and most of them know that they're contributing to social and economic chaos but their instinct keeps them from giving up any advantage as they fool themselves thinking them and their direct descendents won't bear the consequences but at some point they will.

Promoting hate is wrong in any form but pointing out that billionaires are a problem is not hate. It's ultra rich people that hate the poor whether they consciously feel it or not. If you knowingly participate in a system that ultimately leads to people living in extreme poverty and dying of hunger and diseases that could be easily avoided then you hate them.
 

kneeblock

Don't it always seem to go
Apr 18, 2015
10,312
19,158
There are mathematical reasons that billionaires probably represent a symptom of systemic problems. But most of the left does a shit job of selling this beyond hate of rich.

What really matters is that X percent being so far beyond the median eventually represents NOT production. It matters if someone is making money without production. If so, then we need to reexamine the system and tax and pay.
Capitalism needs to reward output not just positioning.

You and I are making data for amazon and/or Google right now. Where's our share of the work? How can you realistically opt out?

kneeblock @Kneeblock does a better job than Bernie in discussing why people siphoning off and centralizing stagnant capital is a problem.

I tire of the demonizing of "them" (Bernie calling a million in salary or wealth "millionaires" interchangeably so lazy) but centralizing too much capital is an inefficient use of that capital. And it's also anti-capitalism as much as monopolies. It breeds instability, boom and bust, and eventually slows the economy with contraction.
Thanks for the compliment Doc. In defense of Bernie, the rhetoric gets pared down to its crudest form in presidential campaigns. Most of the goal of election cycles, especially during primaries is to pump up turnout and carry a reliable base into the convention if need be that will hit the streets for the hard campaigning in the general. An overwhelming majority of people in the US will never see a million in income or assets in a lifetime of earnings, to say nothing of a billion. Even though there are a few people in the millionaire asset class who would probably be good allies for some of the reforms he proposes, the ones that aren't already riding with his reforms are too tough a nut to crack during the primaries and so worth the risk of alienating because realistically we're talking about a group of people that barely fill a small county, even though they have the spending power to seriously influence elections.

Now that Bernie's not looking like quite the long shot he once was, there are 3 groups I'm curious about how he'll win over. First is people in the 300K and over group. Second is military families and communities. Third is middle income (75-150K earners) who have been indoctrinated to believe he's a commie who's going to make them broke. As someone who's in 2 of those groups, I've heard you say repeatedly, and I appreciate this, that what you want is concrete and realistic plans for government spending rather than budgetary gymnastics. In my view, this is a reasonable expectation and one his campaign can fulfill based on at least a couple people I know who are involved with it. One quote I read recently is unlike all the other Dems, Bernie will have the ability to deliver sober news to those who support him when some things don't work out and mobilize folks to apply political pressure from below. Trump has also, weirdly, been good at this, even though he outright lies a lot, to the point where he has the rest of the GOP terrified of his base. Imo, the problem for Bernie is the economy is sufficiently stable right now that many people may not want to rock the boat. That means another Dem may feel safer to the many milquetoasts in the party which gives Bernie a tough road to even getting the nomination. The biggest question is whether Trump has become sufficiently detestable that enough people will turn out against him and enough undecided quasi-conservatives may stay home in the key states. In another circumstance, Warren would be the road to Bernie, just as Hillary could've been the road to Obama. But we don't live in either of those realities sadly and everyone's getting old. I guess we'll have to wait for the dual ticket of Bhad Bhabie and Soph to run against AOC and Emma Gonzalez.
 

jason73

get a job hippy
First 100
Jan 15, 2015
50,833
98,094
LOS ANGELES — Michael Avenatti, the brash former attorney for the porn actress Stormy Daniels, was arrested for allegedly violating bail conditions by committing numerous crimes to hide assets from creditors while living a lavish lifestyle, U.S. prosecutors alleged in a court document released Wednesday.

Avenatti was arrested by IRS agents at a state bar court hearing Tuesday, where he was facing suspension of his license to practice for allegedly stealing from a client, said Thom Mrozek, spokesman for the Los Angeles U.S. Attorney’s office. He was collared during a break in his testimony.