General Impeachment inquiry launched

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silentsinger

Momofuku
Jun 23, 2015
21,038
14,484
Can someone explain in layman terms what pleading the 5th entails? Is it actually legal that you can basically say "not sayin, not tellin"?

Supposedly (only Daily Mail so take it with a grain of salt) Hunter could just do that.

I'm only using this as an example, I want a take on the whole pleading the fifth as a law if anyone knows. Again, layman terms rather than web links if possible please.

Lindsey Graham says Hunter Biden should invoke Fifth Amendment | Daily Mail Online
 

Leigh

Engineer
Pro Fighter
Jan 26, 2015
10,925
21,293
Can someone explain in layman terms what pleading the 5th entails? Is it actually legal that you can basically say "not sayin, not tellin"?

Supposedly (only Daily Mail so take it with a grain of salt) Hunter could just do that.

I'm only using this as an example, I want a take on the whole pleading the fifth as a law if anyone knows. Again, layman terms rather than web links if possible please.

Lindsey Graham says Hunter Biden should invoke Fifth Amendment | Daily Mail Online
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Right to remain silent
 

silentsinger

Momofuku
Jun 23, 2015
21,038
14,484
"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

Right to remain silent
Thank you.

I get the explanation, but in our law, for instance, when arrested, you have the right to remain silent and do a "no comment" interview but they pretty much tell you if you don't say something which you then say in court it will be treated pretty unfavourably but if you say nothing on the stand you're pretty much talking your way into prison.
 

Leigh

Engineer
Pro Fighter
Jan 26, 2015
10,925
21,293
Thank you.

I get the explanation, but in our law, for instance, when arrested, you have the right to remain silent and do a "no comment" interview but they pretty much tell you if you don't say something which you then say in court it will be treated pretty unfavourably but if you say nothing on the stand you're pretty much talking your way into prison.
In the UK, yes. It changed when I was a teenager (I remember the caution changing when I was arrested numerous times). Not in the US, you're protected by the Constitution. I guess they could change it if they wanted to.
 

silentsinger

Momofuku
Jun 23, 2015
21,038
14,484
In the UK, yes. It changed when I was a teenager (I remember the caution changing when I was arrested numerous times). Not in the US, you're protected by the Constitution. I guess they could change it if they wanted to.
Pretty sure it changed after my being naughty stage so it didn't affect me, it would have sucked though.
 

nuraknu

savage
Jul 20, 2016
6,247
10,770
Pretty sure it changed after my being naughty stage so it didn't affect me, it would have sucked though.
Our caution is the Miranda rights that you hear on American television shows.
Miranda warning - Wikipedia
Says anything you do say can be held against you in court, not anything about deciding to speak later.

Read a funny article once about people in another country, maybe France, watching too much Law & Order and demanding warrants from the police for searches but they're not required in their country.

Anyway, idk exactly what applies in an impeachment trial but my understanding is that if you invoke the 5th amendment you have to do it before you start testifying and it has to apply to every question, not just the ones you don't like.

Also I read once that a judge can make you tell them what the problem is off the record and then decide you still have to testify, like if the judge doesn't believe you would be incriminating yourself. Idk if they bother with that part all the time though.

Anyways I found this article from 2013:
10 Times the Fifth Amendment Has Been Used Before Congress
 

silentsinger

Momofuku
Jun 23, 2015
21,038
14,484
Our caution is the Miranda rights that you hear on American television shows.
Miranda warning - Wikipedia
Says anything you do say can be held against you in court, not anything about deciding to speak later.

Read a funny article once about people in another country, maybe France, watching too much Law & Order and demanding warrants from the police for searches but they're not required in their country.

Anyway, idk exactly what applies in an impeachment trial but my understanding is that if you invoke the 5th amendment you have to do it before you start testifying and it has to apply to every question, not just the ones you don't like.

Also I read once that a judge can make you tell them what the problem is off the record and then decide you still have to testify, like if the judge doesn't believe you would be incriminating yourself. Idk if they bother with that part all the time though.

Anyways I found this article from 2013:
10 Times the Fifth Amendment Has Been Used Before Congress
Miranda is pretty much the same as the caution is now in the UK, but it does fascinate me that in (OJ aside) the biggest court cases in the world that there are so many caveats.

Thank you for digging it up.
 

Shinkicker

For what it's worth
Jan 30, 2016
10,307
13,908
I have a question. If Ukraine had been sending Trump private messages implying that they had something on the Bidens and would reopen investigations for favors prior to the phone call, like during the new president of Urkaine's campaign, would that make you feel any differently about the situation?

Would that be entrapment of any kind? I mean you know Trump could not resist.
 

Shinkicker

For what it's worth
Jan 30, 2016
10,307
13,908
Joe Biden had been investigated months before Trump pressured Zelensky, prosecutors say | KyivPost - Ukraine's Global Voice


While the revelation that Trump wanted Ukraine to help his 2020 campaign shocked the American society, in Ukraine this idea was floated publicly but largely went unnoticed months before.

In June, Boris Tisenhausen, an advisor-at-large to Zelensky, was publicly discussing the possibility of Zelensky using the Burisma investigation as leverage in talks with Trump.

“Joe Biden’s son and ex-U.S. State Secretary John Kerry’s stepson feature in this case,” he said on air at Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty on June 4. “According to preliminary primaries, Biden is the Democratic frontrunner, i.e. a competitor for Donald Trump. Having such leverage that may impact Biden’s reputation in Ukraine, Zelensky will be a welcome guest at Donald Trump’s administration.”
 

KWingJitsu

ยาเม็ดสีแดงหรือสีฟ้ายา?
Nov 15, 2015
10,311
12,758
'Take her out': Recording appears to capture Trump at private dinner saying he wants Ukraine ambassador fired

"A recording reviewed by ABC News appears to capture President Donald Trump telling associates he wanted the then-U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch fired while speaking at a small gathering that included Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman -- two former business associates of Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani who have since been indicted in New York.

The recording appears to contradict statements by Trump and support the narrative that has been offered by Parnas during broadcast interviews in recent days. Sources familiar with the recording said the recording was made during an intimate April 30, 2018, dinner at the Trump International Hotel in Washington, D.C.

Trump has said repeatedly he does not know Parnas... "

LOL....
 

jason73

Yuri Bezmenov was right
First 100
Jan 15, 2015
72,781
134,158
'Take her out': Recording appears to capture Trump at private dinner saying he wants Ukraine ambassador fired

"A recording reviewed by ABC News appears to capture President Donald Trump telling associates he wanted the then-U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch fired while speaking at a small gathering that included Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman -- two former business associates of Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani who have since been indicted in New York.

The recording appears to contradict statements by Trump and support the narrative that has been offered by Parnas during broadcast interviews in recent days. Sources familiar with the recording said the recording was made during an intimate April 30, 2018, dinner at the Trump International Hotel in Washington, D.C.

Trump has said repeatedly he does not know Parnas... "

LOL....
obama fired every bush appointed ambassador as soon as he took power





The incoming Obama administration has notified all politically-appointed ambassadors that they must vacate their posts as of Jan. 20, the day President-elect Barack Obama takes the oath of office, a State Department official said.

The clean slate will open up prime opportunities for the president-elect to reward political supporters with posts in London, Paris, Tokyo and the like. The notice to diplomatic posts was issued this week.

Political ambassadors sometimes are permitted to stay on briefly during a new administration, but the sweeping nature of the directive suggests that Obama has little interest in retaining any of Bush's ambassadorial appointees.

Most ambassadors, of course, are foreign service officers, but often the posts involving the most important bilateral relations (such as with Great Britain, Japan and India) or desirable locales (such as the Bahamas) are given to close friends and well-heeled contributors of the president.

By Web Politics Editor | December 3, 2008; 10:04 AM ET
 

FINGERS

TMMAC Addict
Nov 14, 2019
16,508
19,574
obama fired every bush appointed ambassador as soon as he took power





The incoming Obama administration has notified all politically-appointed ambassadors that they must vacate their posts as of Jan. 20, the day President-elect Barack Obama takes the oath of office, a State Department official said.

The clean slate will open up prime opportunities for the president-elect to reward political supporters with posts in London, Paris, Tokyo and the like. The notice to diplomatic posts was issued this week.

Political ambassadors sometimes are permitted to stay on briefly during a new administration, but the sweeping nature of the directive suggests that Obama has little interest in retaining any of Bush's ambassadorial appointees.

Most ambassadors, of course, are foreign service officers, but often the posts involving the most important bilateral relations (such as with Great Britain, Japan and India) or desirable locales (such as the Bahamas) are given to close friends and well-heeled contributors of the president.

By Web Politics Editor | December 3, 2008; 10:04 AM ET

That is an absolute lie. It's simply not true.

This is the sort of shit the internet does.

And morons lap it up.

It's not true.
 

nuraknu

savage
Jul 20, 2016
6,247
10,770
obama fired every bush appointed ambassador as soon as he took power





The incoming Obama administration has notified all politically-appointed ambassadors that they must vacate their posts as of Jan. 20, the day President-elect Barack Obama takes the oath of office, a State Department official said.

The clean slate will open up prime opportunities for the president-elect to reward political supporters with posts in London, Paris, Tokyo and the like. The notice to diplomatic posts was issued this week.

Political ambassadors sometimes are permitted to stay on briefly during a new administration, but the sweeping nature of the directive suggests that Obama has little interest in retaining any of Bush's ambassadorial appointees.

Most ambassadors, of course, are foreign service officers, but often the posts involving the most important bilateral relations (such as with Great Britain, Japan and India) or desirable locales (such as the Bahamas) are given to close friends and well-heeled contributors of the president.

By Web Politics Editor | December 3, 2008; 10:04 AM ET
Did Obama Fire All Bush-Appointed Ambassadors?

*I had to check bc the topic was interesting
 

jason73

Yuri Bezmenov was right
First 100
Jan 15, 2015
72,781
134,158
Barack Obama is coming under fire for handing dozens of coveted ambassadorships to donors who raised millions for his presidential campaign.

The diplomatic postings range from tiny island nations in the Caribbean to major political partners, such as France and Britain, and have raised the hackles of many American diplomats.

The practice of appointing campaign donors instead of state department professionals has a long tradition in the US. However, many had hoped that Obama would reduce such displays of patronage.

That has not happened. Since taking office, Obama has made almost 80 ambassadorial nominations, of which 56% went to political appointees.

"It is time to end the spoils system and to stop renting out these ambassadorships for fabulous sums of money," said Susan Johnson, president of the American Foreign Service Association, which monitors the nominations. Johnson said Obama was on track to equal the number of such appointments made by President Bush. "It is business as usual," she said.

Some Obama backers have been posted to glamorous European countries. Britain's new US ambassador is Louis Susman, who raised more than $500,000 for Obama. The new ambassador to France is Charles Rivkin, a former TV executive who helped raise $800,000, while Germany is getting Philip Murphy, an ex-finance chairman of the Democratic National Committee who has donated $1.9m to the party since 1989.

Other political appointees have been aimed at less important countries, but ones where a few years in the sun might seem like an attractive proposition: Nicole Avant, who raised at least $800,000 for Obama, is the new ambassador appointed to the Bahamas.

Anti-corruption groups say the practice sends a message that government posts can be bought by backing the right candidate in an election campaign. "It is an auction for donors. It is a way the administration has of rewarding them," said Josh Israel, a project co-ordinator for the Center for Public Integrity, a Washington-based watchdog group.
 

FINGERS

TMMAC Addict
Nov 14, 2019
16,508
19,574
Barack Obama is coming under fire for handing dozens of coveted ambassadorships to donors who raised millions for his presidential campaign.

The diplomatic postings range from tiny island nations in the Caribbean to major political partners, such as France and Britain, and have raised the hackles of many American diplomats.

The practice of appointing campaign donors instead of state department professionals has a long tradition in the US. However, many had hoped that Obama would reduce such displays of patronage.

That has not happened. Since taking office, Obama has made almost 80 ambassadorial nominations, of which 56% went to political appointees.

"It is time to end the spoils system and to stop renting out these ambassadorships for fabulous sums of money," said Susan Johnson, president of the American Foreign Service Association, which monitors the nominations. Johnson said Obama was on track to equal the number of such appointments made by President Bush. "It is business as usual," she said.

Some Obama backers have been posted to glamorous European countries. Britain's new US ambassador is Louis Susman, who raised more than $500,000 for Obama. The new ambassador to France is Charles Rivkin, a former TV executive who helped raise $800,000, while Germany is getting Philip Murphy, an ex-finance chairman of the Democratic National Committee who has donated $1.9m to the party since 1989.

Other political appointees have been aimed at less important countries, but ones where a few years in the sun might seem like an attractive proposition: Nicole Avant, who raised at least $800,000 for Obama, is the new ambassador appointed to the Bahamas.

Anti-corruption groups say the practice sends a message that government posts can be bought by backing the right candidate in an election campaign. "It is an auction for donors. It is a way the administration has of rewarding them," said Josh Israel, a project co-ordinator for the Center for Public Integrity, a Washington-based watchdog group.


You said every Bush pick was changed by the day of his inauguration?

A lie.