General Shooting at Broward County high school, shooter still at large

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Truck Party

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Picasso said it took him a lifetime to learn to paint like a child, but it's only taken 8 days for the left to think like children. Well done
 
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I brought my concerns about this up in another thread where my friend SensoriaUtopia @SensoriaUtopia thought I was being sarcastic for some reason...

You can make schools a Fortress, but to what end?

You can really screw some kids up with a overly authoritarian system that stifles thought and flexibility in the rules for the goal of safety. Same with criminalizing almost all teenage Behavior, as campus police departments seem to do.

I'd like to see the pendulum swing the other way some.
 

SensoriaUtopia

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I brought my concerns about this up in another thread where my friend SensoriaUtopia @SensoriaUtopia thought I was being sarcastic for some reason...

You can make schools a Fortress, but to what end?

You can really screw some kids up with a overly authoritarian system that stifles thought and flexibility in the rules for the goal of safety. Same with criminalizing almost all teenage Behavior, as campus police departments seem to do.

I'd like to see the pendulum swing the other way some.

I did not so much think that you where sarcastic as perplexed by your response. I said we need more cops on school and metal detectors and I believe it was you that said the comment about the fortress.
 

SensoriaUtopia

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@Splinty

Also in a perfect world none of this is needed but rather mentally screw up a kid by having too much metal detectors and security measures , because at least later in life the kid can get therapy, vs a murdered gunned down innocent kid, we can't bring them back to life, hopefully their spirit goes to a better place.

Do you see where I am coming from?
 
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Do you see where I am coming from?

Absolutely. Kids need to be safe. But see above. Im not the only one with a concern about this. That guy points out that we are spending a lot of money and making kids criminals. That's a negative.

Maybe we are making kids safer, but we aren't stopping shootings for one. So I'm not sure how much safer kids are being really. Or do we just feel better as adults that we tried?

I was just wanting you to see that I was being pretty sincere in my concerns. And there's dozens like me....DOZENS.
 

mysticmac

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Absolutely. Kids need to be safe. But see above. Im not the only one with a concern about this. That guy points out that we are spending a lot of money and making kids criminals. That's a negative.
You can't really say we are making kids criminals. We aren't forcing them to break the law. If they choose to do so, they made that decision on their own, and they need to learn that actions have consequences. That said, I'd like to see the conviction rate on those arrests. The vast majority of them likely got a slap on the wrist.

Maybe we are making kids safer, but we aren't stopping shootings for one. So I'm not sure how much safer kids are being really. Or do we just feel better as adults that we tried?

I was just wanting you to see that I was being pretty sincere in my concerns. And there's dozens like me....DOZENS.
You can't really say we didn't stop any mass shootings. You have no idea if more shootings would have occurred.
 
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You can't really say we are making kids criminals. We aren't forcing them to break the law. If they choose to do so, they made that decision on their own, and they need to learn that actions have consequences. That said, I'd like to see the conviction rate on those arrests. The vast majority of them likely got a slap on the wrist.
Everything I've ever done for the military or medicine has asked if I've ever been arrested. It doesn't matter if I was let off. If I was arrested I would have to tell them.

I'm being a little short-handed just to get across my point that I have a concern about how we're addressing this. Of course my concerns aren't validated studies.
And to the point we do make children criminals when we criminalize what was previously non criminalized.
Skipping class gets you arrested. That wasn't always the case.
Rather minimal interactions are now responded to in Zero Tolerance fashion in combination with criminalized punishment rather than simply detention and suspension.

Theres obviously things that should require police response. But as I watched police departments develop and integrate into the school systems where I live, all I saw was criminalizing existing behavior with no significant change in teen behavior... Because teenagers are stupid. The next generation are going to make the same stupid mistakes and make the same stupid choices as the next one in the next. Because teenagers are stupid. Well, except for there was the change that cops broke a couple kids arms because police are supposed to be going after an undifferentiated population, not the self-selected population that choose to show up at school. And now their tactics tend to be overkill.

You can't really say we didn't stop any mass shootings. You have no idea if more shootings would have occurred.
Fair point.
I was mostly just alluding to the Tweet above and again my concern that we don't really have evidence of campus police effectiveness the way I think we should if we're going to spend all this money. And I think we should consider if children should be penalized in non-criminal ways.